On 21/08/2010 0.57, David Krauss wrote:
> On Aug 19, 3:11 am, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
>> formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]
>
> Sorry for reversing the emphasis, but as I noted, the text is the same
> between the IS and the FCD. Also, I'm sorry for accidentally hitting
> send before filling out the subject line, but why did you discard the
> submission that *does* have a complete subject?

They are not reading anything. And requests to the moderation
address go into the vacuum.

Please, give us back our comp.std.c++ :-(

PS: I recommend sending your DRs to the CWG or LWG chair, as
appropriate (look for the email address at the top of the
corresponding issues list page) and if they agree that there's a
defect, post a copy of your message here (for the general
public's benefit).

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David Krauss wrote:
> On Aug 19, 3:11 am, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
>> formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]
>
> Sorry for reversing the emphasis, but as I noted, the text is the
> same between the IS and the FCD. Also, I'm sorry for accidentally
> hitting send before filling out the subject line, but why did you
> discard the submission that *does* have a complete subject?

>From what I understand, a Defect Report is an official ISO term for a
document that requires a formal response from the committee. If the
defect is in a draft document or working paper, I have learned to use
a subject lines like "N3090 Defect:..." instead. If it is a real
defect, the committee members here will catch that. If not, the report
can be informally rejected here. Might save some work.

The moderators being a group of people introduces some random noice
into the process. Sometimes it is a judgment call, and different
people make different decisions. I have, on occation, had the same
posts simultaneously approved and rejected by two different
moderators. Such things happen!


Bo Persson



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On Aug 21, 11:00 pm, Gennaro Prota <gennaro.pr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> They are not reading anything. And requests to the moderation
> address go into the vacuum.
>
> Please, give us back our comp.std.c++ :-(

I got a mail back that it was being handled as an editorial change...
so it sounds like it's in the system and all is well.

> PS: I recommend sending your DRs to the CWG or LWG chair, as
> appropriate (look for the email address at the top of the
> corresponding issues list page) and if they agree that there's a
> defect, post a copy of your message here (for the general
> public's benefit).

Cool, I'll remember that for later.


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On Aug 20, 3:57 pm, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 19, 3:11 am, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
> > formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]
>
> Sorry for reversing the emphasis, but as I noted, the text is the same
> between the IS and the FCD.

Not a problem; presumably you wanted this fixed in the FCD, and that's
what will happen.  Pete Becker has confirmed that this can be handled
as an editorial fix.

> Also, I'm sorry for accidentally hitting
> send before filling out the subject line, but why did you discard the
> submission that *does* have a complete subject?

I'm afraid I'm not sure what you're talking about here.  If you'd like
to give more details (preferably to the moderators at std-c++-
request@cs.rpi.edu, but to the group if you prefer), we can look into
it if need be.

-- James


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On Aug 21, 9:00 pm, Gennaro Prota <gennaro.pr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 21/08/2010 0.57, David Krauss wrote:
>
> > On Aug 19, 3:11 am, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> [ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
> >> formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]
>
> > Sorry for reversing the emphasis, but as I noted, the text is the same
> > between the IS and the FCD. Also, I'm sorry for accidentally hitting
> > send before filling out the subject line, but why did you discard the
> > submission that *does* have a complete subject?

As I noted above, this message (addressing the issue in the FCD) was
forwarded to the project editor.  He has agreed that it will be fixed
as an editorial matter.

(I do not know whether the other submission was, in fact, discarded.)

> They are not reading anything. And requests to the moderation
> address go into the vacuum.

As one of the moderators of comp.std.c++, I can assure readers that
we're reading, and I have exchanged e-mail with Gennaro -- possibly it
crossed over with his post.

It does appear that the moderation addresses have not been updated
everywhere (though I believe that
std-c++-request@cs.rpi.edu<std-c%2B%2B-request@cs.rpi.edu>
 as
mentioned in the FAQ is correct, and it receives a slow but steady
trickle of requests).

Moderation latency for this group has been somewhat high of late, and
I'll be working on addressing that.

-- James


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David Krauss wrote:

> [ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
> formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]
>
> FCD 5.2.5/1 [expr.ref] erroneously refers to 14.8.1
> [temp.arg.explicit] where it should point to 14.2/4 [temp.names]:
>
> A postfix expression followed by a dot . or an arrow ->, optionally
> followed by the keyword template (14.8.1), and then followed by an id-
> expression, is a postfix expression.
>
> The error and all the section and paragraph numbers involved are the
> same as in the C++03 standard.
>

Possibly also an editorial issue in the same subsection: In accordance to
ISO norms, replace "shall" by "can only" in

"For the first option (dot) the type of the first expression (the object
expression ) shall be "class object" (of a complete type)."

(same in 5.2.4/2 for pseudo-dtor-calls). Otherwise, the syntactical
ambiguity in "a.~A()" (pseudo-dtor-call or class-member-access?) is not
solved.

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On 23/08/2010 19.26, James Dennett wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:00 pm, Gennaro Prota <gennaro.pr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 21/08/2010 0.57, David Krauss wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 19, 3:11 am, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> [ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
>>>> formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]
>>
>>> Sorry for reversing the emphasis, but as I noted, the text is the same
>>> between the IS and the FCD. Also, I'm sorry for accidentally hitting
>>> send before filling out the subject line, but why did you discard the
>>> submission that *does* have a complete subject?
>
> As I noted above, this message (addressing the issue in the FCD) was
> forwarded to the project editor.  He has agreed that it will be fixed
> as an editorial matter.
>
> (I do not know whether the other submission was, in fact, discarded.)
>
>> They are not reading anything. And requests to the moderation
>> address go into the vacuum.
>
> As one of the moderators of comp.std.c++, I can assure readers that
> we're reading, and I have exchanged e-mail with Gennaro -- possibly it
> crossed over with his post.

We didn't discuss whether you read the messages :-)

(Of course, "you" is meant as plural --it may well be that
there's just one moderator who is or has been sloppy. More on
why I think so, below.)

When you wrote me, I happened to notice that the address you
were using was different from the one that appeared (and still
appears, as I'm writing this) in the notification messages. I
had used the latter and the request went into the vacuum. As you
guessed, I happened to notice the difference after posting the
above (for the records, I posted the message above on Aug 21,
1:41 local time, where as my mail reply to you was sent at 2:58
--evidently, I spotted the mismatch between those two moments).

> It does appear that the moderation addresses have not been updated
> everywhere (though I believe that
> std-c++-request@cs.rpi.edu<std-c%2B%2B-request@cs.rpi.edu>
>  as
> mentioned in the FAQ is correct, and it receives a slow but steady
> trickle of requests).

As I said, I used the address that appears in the notification
messages:

 This is an automatic reply.

 Your submission to the Usenet newsgroup comp.std.c++
 has arrived in the moderation queue.

      [...]

 Please use tracking number 3377 in questions to mods
 who may be reached at std-c++-request@netlab.cs.rpi.edu.

(Note the "netlab" and "request" parts.)

How could I suspect that it was different from the one in the
FAQ. And even if I had suspected, or spotted the issue by
chance, I'd have considered more probable that the out-of-date
one was that in the FAQ.

As to reading the messages, I've seen both off-topic messages
(such as one on boost.lambda) and many defect reports (even with
the correct subject, etc.) that didn't carry any "forwarded to
the C++ committee" note. FWIW, I forwarded them myself, and it
was confirmed that they hadn't been forwarded yet.

What should have I thought?

--
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[ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]

FCD 5.2.5/1 [expr.ref] erroneously refers to 14.8.1
[temp.arg.explicit] where it should point to 14.2/4 [temp.names]:

A postfix expression followed by a dot . or an arrow ->, optionally
followed by the keyword template (14.8.1), and then followed by an id-
expression, is a postfix expression.

The error and all the section and paragraph numbers involved are the
same as in the C++03 standard.

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On Aug 19, 3:11 am, David Krauss <pot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [ Forwarded to the project editor; as I understand it, this is not
> formally a DR, as it's in an FCD, not an IS. -- mod/jad ]

Sorry for reversing the emphasis, but as I noted, the text is the same
between the IS and the FCD. Also, I'm sorry for accidentally hitting
send before filling out the subject line, but why did you discard the
submission that *does* have a complete subject?


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