kuyper@wizard.net (James Kuyper) wrote in message news:<8b42afac.0311190753.3659ed03@posting.google.com>...
 > allan_w@my-dejanews.com (Allan W) wrote in message news:<7f2735a5.0311171011.a851289@posting.google.com>...
 > > Steve Clamage <Stephen.Clamage@Sun.COM> wrote
 > >  > In C++, enums of different ranges are allowed to be of different sizes.
 > >  > For example, if the range fits in one byte, the compiler is allowed to
 > >  > make the enum type one byte in size (or two bytes, or sizeof(int)).
 > >
 > >     enum COLOR {
 > >        black=30001, brown, red, orange, yellow,
 > >        green, blue, violet, grey, white,
 > >        gold
 > >     };
 > >     int x = red; // Must be the value 30003
 > >
 > > Note that there are only 11 valid colors and their values are
 > > contiguous (gold - black + 1 = 11).
 > >
 > > Since I used a value which does not fit into a char, is the compiler
 > > required to use at least 2 bytes for a COLOR?
 >
 > No. If UCHAR_MAX<=30011, it can use unsigned char. If
 > SCHAR_MAX<=30011, it can also used signed char.\

Correction: <= should have been >=, in both cases.


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I recently got into a discussion with a co-worker about using enums across a
dll interface.  He wanted to use chars instead, argueing that depending on
compiler settings the size of an enum could change and lead to memory
corruption.  I didn't see how this was possible.  He claims that if a dll
built for a program is built with different compiler settings than the
launcher program, the enum size could change.

The only way I could figure out to break this would be change the byte
alignment to 1 or 2.  Then read in the data structure from the dll a byte at
a time assuming all the while that you knew how the memory was laid out.
Then the alignment could change where the enum was located and you could
read bad memory.

The only symptom of this problem is that when the launcher application is
exited, the machine reboots.  I believe it is a 98 system running VC 6.0.
To me this sounds more like memory being trashed by improper pointer
management.  Does any of this sound remotely possible.  Is it somehow unsafe
to use enums in any way?  I hope not or my world will fall apart.

SpaceCowboy


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SpaceCowboy wrote in news:2Fvsb.41311$PH6.17903@twister.austin.rr.com:

[crosspost removed]

>
> I recently got into a discussion with a co-worker about using enums
> across a dll interface.  He wanted to use chars instead, argueing that
> depending on compiler settings the size of an enum could change and
> lead to memory corruption.  I didn't see how this was possible.  He
> claims that if a dll built for a program is built with different
> compiler settings than the launcher program, the enum size could
> change.
>

This is implmentation specific, but yes IRL this can and does
happen, to prevent it do:

enum MyEnum
{
  originalEnum,
  DUMBY_MyEnum = ~0UL, // make the enum as big as possible.
};

> The only way I could figure out to break this would be change the byte
> alignment to 1 or 2.  Then read in the data structure from the dll a
> byte at a time assuming all the while that you knew how the memory was
> laid out. Then the alignment could change where the enum was located
> and you could read bad memory.

The size of an enum is genraly the smallest int type (signed/unsigned)
that can hold any of its values, this is standard conforming behaviour.

>
> The only symptom of this problem is that when the launcher application
> is exited, the machine reboots.  I believe it is a 98 system running
> VC 6.0. To me this sounds more like memory being trashed by improper
> pointer management.  Does any of this sound remotely possible.  Is it
> somehow unsafe to use enums in any way?

Is it the enum's or the dll's :)

> I hope not or my world will fall apart.
>

HTHH (Hope the Hack helps).

Rob.
--
http://www.victim-prime.dsl.pipex.com/

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In C++, enums of different ranges are allowed to be of different sizes.
For example, if the range fits in one byte, the compiler is allowed to
make the enum type one byte in size (or two bytes, or sizeof(int)).

For compatibilty with C, which requires enums to be the size of ints,
most C++ compilers make enums the same size by default. Some compilers
have an option to affect the size of enums.

Of course, if the enum range won't fit in an int, some larger size must
be used for the enum. The C++ standard encourages implementors to keep
enums no larger than an int when possible.

If you use a compiler option to change the size of enums, you are
changing the ABI (the binary program interface). You cannot link
together binaries using different ABIs and expect a good result. You
certainly should document anything unusual you do in building a program
that affects clients of the program.

So, yes, it is possible for different parts of a program to have
different sizes for enum types, although in my view using non-default
enum sizes is asking for trouble. I certainly would not do it in a
library that anybody else might use. And if I were contemplating using
non-default enum sizes, I'd look very carefully at anything my program
depended on.

--
Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@sun.com

SpaceCowboy wrote:
> I recently got into a discussion with a co-worker about using enums across a
> dll interface.  He wanted to use chars instead, argueing that depending on
> compiler settings the size of an enum could change and lead to memory
> corruption.  I didn't see how this was possible.  He claims that if a dll
> built for a program is built with different compiler settings than the
> launcher program, the enum size could change.
>
> The only way I could figure out to break this would be change the byte
> alignment to 1 or 2.  Then read in the data structure from the dll a byte at
> a time assuming all the while that you knew how the memory was laid out.
> Then the alignment could change where the enum was located and you could
> read bad memory.
>
> The only symptom of this problem is that when the launcher application is
> exited, the machine reboots.  I believe it is a 98 system running VC 6.0.
> To me this sounds more like memory being trashed by improper pointer
> management.  Does any of this sound remotely possible.  Is it somehow unsafe
> to use enums in any way?  I hope not or my world will fall apart.


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Hi SpaceCowboy,

"SpaceCowboy" <blrow@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:2Fvsb.41311$PH6.17903@twister.austin.rr.com...
>
> I recently got into a discussion with a co-worker about using enums across
a
> dll interface.  He wanted to use chars instead, argueing that depending on
> compiler settings the size of an enum could change and lead to memory
> corruption.  I didn't see how this was possible.  He claims that if a dll
> built for a program is built with different compiler settings than the
> launcher program, the enum size could change.

The size of all C or C++ datatypes are compiler-dependent (even
compiler-option dependent!).

So, to maintain consistency across DLLs, you should agree on a specific
type. If your application is to be run only on Windows, you can use
predefined fixed-length types like BYTE, WORD or DWORD. Don't use INT or
int, since it changes depending whether you're writing a 16-,32- or 64-bit
application.

The size of enum types isn't specified. The compiler can either make them
the smallest size possible, int, or something else.

The size of the other types is defined such that sizeof(char) <=
sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long). If you use these types, you
make yourself dependent on the compiler. The usual workaround is to have an
extra include file for defining types like "int8_t", "int16_t", "int32_t"
and "int64_t", or similar. This way you have to change only the include file
in case the compiler changes.

I hope that helps.

Regards,
Ekkehard Morgenstern.



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rtw@freenet.REMOVE.co.uk (Rob Williscroft) wrote in message
news:<Xns9432C7159BA26ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@195.129.110.204>...

> The size of an enum is genraly the smallest int type (signed/unsigned)
> that can hold any of its values, this is standard conforming
> behaviour.

The size of an enum is implementation dependant, although it cannot be
gratuiously larger than an int.  I'm not aware of any compiler option
which will affect this, however.  (VC++ does have options which affect
the size of pointers to members, and the alignment of data in a struct.)

Of course, all definitions of an enum must contain exactly the same
entries, or the one definition rule has been violated, and all bets are
off.

--
James Kanze           GABI Software        mailto:kanze@gabi-soft.fr
Conseils en informatique orient   e objet/     http://www.gabi-soft.fr
                    Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
11 rue de Rambouillet, 78460 Chevreuse, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 45 16

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SpaceCowboy <blrow@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2Fvsb.41311$PH6.17903@twister.austin.rr.com>...

> I recently got into a discussion with a co-worker about using enums
> across a dll interface.  He wanted to use chars instead, argueing that
> depending on compiler settings the size of an enum could change and
> lead to memory corruption.  I didn't see how this was possible.  He
> claims that if a dll built for a program is built with different
> compiler settings than the launcher program, the enum size could
> change.

It really depends on the compiler.  All of the compilers I know are in
fact several compilers; which one you get depends on the invocation
arguments.  All of them, for example, implement several different
languages (Posix C, standard C, standard C++, backwards compatible
C++...).  Most of them also implement several different targets: with
signed char's, with unsigned char's, with different size enums, with
different alignment requirements, with different size long's and
pointers...

Generally speaking, compatibility between shared objects, libraries,
etc. is only garanteed if all translation units have been compiled for
the same target.  Depending on the linker and the differences, you may
get an error, you may get simply get strange crashes, or everything may
work as expected: if on my system I specify 32 bit mode for some
modules, and 64 bit mode for others, I get a linker error on my system.
On the other hand, if I specify different alignment requirements, rather
than using the default, the modules will link, but I will likely get a
core dump at execution.  With VC++, if I specified that plain char is
signed in one module, and unsigned in another, I can not only linke, but
everything will work.

As a general rule, you should know what options you use, and stick to
one set of options for anything which affects the target.  Or possibly
generate several versions of the library -- it is quite common, for
example, to generate both a multi-threaded version and a single threaded
version, for both 32 bits and 64 bits, on my platform (Sun Sparc under
Solaris).  (Add the fact that we support two different compilers, and
both static and dynamic linking, as well as debug and optimized
versions, in all configurations, and a new library release can take
quite some time to build -- 16 different versions in all.)  If the
libraries are only to be used for one or two in house applications,
however, it is probably simpler to simply standardize on one target.

> The only way I could figure out to break this would be change the byte
> alignment to 1 or 2.  Then read in the data structure from the dll a
> byte at a time assuming all the while that you knew how the memory was
> laid out.  Then the alignment could change where the enum was located
> and you could read bad memory.

There are many different options which can affect compatibility.  With
Sun CC 5.1, I can generate two different class layouts (with different
name mangling, so they probably won't link), two different hardware
models (32 bits and 64 bits -- this information is placed in the object
file, and the linkers won't allow mixing), and with or without proper
alignment (never tried, but I suspect that mixing would be a source of
core dumps).  With VC++, there are options concerning calling
conventions, packing, the signed-ness of plain character, and probably a
few other things I don't know about.  As far as I know (but I don't use
the platform often enough to be sure), the linker verifies none of
these, although the calling convention may affect name mangling, and
thus trigger linker errors.

As a user, it is ALWAYS your responsibility to ensure that everything
you are linking is compatible.

> The only symptom of this problem is that when the launcher application
> is exited, the machine reboots.  I believe it is a 98 system running
> VC 6.0.  To me this sounds more like memory being trashed by improper
> pointer management.  Does any of this sound remotely possible.  Is it
> somehow unsafe to use enums in any way?  I hope not or my world will
> fall apart.

This could be any number of things.  I don't know about the enum
question in particular, but in general, it is not safe to link modules
if you don't know whether they were compiled with compatible options or
not.  It's not particular to enum's, and it's not particular to
Microsoft (although they seem to have more unverified options than
most).

--
James Kanze           GABI Software        mailto:kanze@gabi-soft.fr
Conseils en informatique orient   e objet/     http://www.gabi-soft.fr
                    Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
11 rue de Rambouillet, 78460 Chevreuse, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 45 16


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SpaceCowboy <blrow@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2Fvsb.41311$PH6.17903@twister.austin.rr.com>...
> I recently got into a discussion with a co-worker about using enums across a
> dll interface.  He wanted to use chars instead, argueing that depending on
> compiler settings the size of an enum could change and lead to memory
> corruption.  I didn't see how this was possible.  He claims that if a dll
> built for a program is built with different compiler settings than the
> launcher program, the enum size could change.

In principle, using a compiler with different command line options
makes it a different implementation of C++. There's no guarantee that
different implementations of C++ are compatible with each other; any
feature that can be different for different implmentations might be
changed by a compiler, and that includes the size of an enum. In
practice, a vendor would have to be crazy to deliberately build in
unnecessary incompatibilities between object files compiled using
different compiler options.

However, some compiler options  necessarily produce incompatibilities.
For example, the compiler I use most frequently has a -64 option to
compile in 64 bit mode rather than the default of 32 bits. The whole
point of the option is to change the size of pointers and long
integers, which inherently renders the object files incompatible.
You'll need to check your compiler's documentation of the meanings of
the particular options you're worrying about.


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Steve Clamage <Stephen.Clamage@Sun.COM> wrote
 > In C++, enums of different ranges are allowed to be of different sizes.
 > For example, if the range fits in one byte, the compiler is allowed to
 > make the enum type one byte in size (or two bytes, or sizeof(int)).

    enum COLOR {
       black=30001, brown, red, orange, yellow,
       green, blue, violet, grey, white,
       gold
    };
    int x = red; // Must be the value 30003

Note that there are only 11 valid colors and their values are
contiguous (gold - black + 1 = 11).

Since I used a value which does not fit into a char, is the compiler
required to use at least 2 bytes for a COLOR?

Or, is the compiler allowed to stuff these values into a byte? It could
use the value 0 for black, and then implement the values I created by
adding 30001 whenever it is translated back to an integral type.

     COLOR color = grey;
     cout << *(reinterpret_cast<short*>(&color));

Assuming that short is at least 2 bytes, is this guaranteed to
display 30009?


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SpaceCowboy wrote:
> I recently got into a discussion with a co-worker about using enums
> across a dll interface.  He wanted to use chars instead, argueing
> that depending on compiler settings the size of an enum could change
> and lead to memory corruption.  I didn't see how this was possible.
> He claims that if a dll built for a program is built with different
> compiler settings than the launcher program, the enum size could
> change.

Some compilers have different options to determine an enum size if the enum
values all fit within a particular integer size. With those compilers there
is often a #pragma which can be placed in a header file prior to an enum
declaration which will set the enum size to the same value when source is
compiled and when a user has to interface with the enum in a class or
namespace. This #pragma ensures that the enum size is the same when a shared
library is built and when it is used.

If one doesn't use the same enum size in the cases described just above,
using the enum would almost certainly lead to disaster if the enum size is
changed between the time when the shared library is built and when it is
used. In other words, the #pragma is necessary to ensure the same size even
when a compiler option allows the enum size to change, since the #pragma
takes precedence over the compiler option. So while your co-worker is
theoretically right, if the shared library has been created correctly, with
the necessary #pragma in the header file, passing enums between shared
modules and executables shouldn't be a problem. Of course there may be
developers of 3rd party libraries who do not take into account the necessary
settings for enum size when they build their libraries, and this may lead to
disaster.


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Allan W wrote:
> Steve Clamage <Stephen.Clamage@Sun.COM> wrote
>  > In C++, enums of different ranges are allowed to be of different sizes.
>  > For example, if the range fits in one byte, the compiler is allowed to
>  > make the enum type one byte in size (or two bytes, or sizeof(int)).
>
>     enum COLOR {
>        black=30001, brown, red, orange, yellow,
>        green, blue, violet, grey, white,
>        gold
>     };
>     int x = red; // Must be the value 30003
>
> Note that there are only 11 valid colors and their values are
> contiguous (gold - black + 1 = 11).
>
> Since I used a value which does not fit into a char, is the compiler
> required to use at least 2 bytes for a COLOR?
>
> Or, is the compiler allowed to stuff these values into a byte? It could
> use the value 0 for black, and then implement the values I created by
> adding 30001 whenever it is translated back to an integral type.
>
>      COLOR color = grey;
>      cout << *(reinterpret_cast<short*>(&color));
>
> Assuming that short is at least 2 bytes, is this guaranteed to
> display 30009?

The enumerators are required to be represented as integer values, and an
enum type must have an underlying integer type that can represent all
the enumerator values. In this case, the underlying type must be able to
represent the values 30001 through 30011. Since a short can represent
all those values, a short or int could be used to represent the type. (A
short is required to be able able to represent values in the range
-32767 through +32767.) If bytes were 16 bits on the architecture, an
implementation could use a char type for this enum.

Because of the rule about underlying type, you can sometimes create
values of an enum type that are not the value of any enumerator. The
requirement is that the value be representable in the minimum number of
bits needed to represent all of the enumerator values.

For example, if the smallest enumerator is 3 and the largest is 11, you
can create values of the enum type in the range 0 through 15, since 4
bits are required to represent the enumerators.

C++ added the requirement to allow a contiguous range of enum values to
support the common idiom of using enumerators as bit flags that can be
OR'd together.

Reference: C++ standard section 7.2, "Enumeration Declaration".

--
Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@sun.com


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On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:30:33 +0000 (UTC), Steve Clamage
<Stephen.Clamage@Sun.COM> wrote:

>
> In C++, enums of different ranges are allowed to be of different sizes.
> For example, if the range fits in one byte, the compiler is allowed to
> make the enum type one byte in size (or two bytes, or sizeof(int)).
>
> For compatibilty with C, which requires enums to be the size of ints,
> most C++ compilers make enums the same size by default. Some compilers
> have an option to affect the size of enums.
>
No, the C standard also allows each enumerated type to be "compatible
with an integer type; the choice of type is implementation-defined"
and C99 adds explicitly what was obviously intended "but shall be
capable of representing the values of all the members of the
enumeration." plus a footnote saying explicitly "An implementation may
delay the choice of which integer type until all enumeration constants
have been seen." which clearly allows it to be minimal for that range.
(E.g. can't do   enum foo { quux = sizeof (enum foo), bar = 999 }; )

Some C compilers may choose to implement all enums as int, and this
may well be a good choice, since after all int is supposed to be the
"natural [and presumably efficient] size" for the platform. A C++
compiler built on, packaged with, or otherwise compatible with such a
C compiler probably should and does do the same where it can.

And to someone else who said they didn't know of a C compiler option
to do this, one but an important one: gcc -fshort-enums.

> Of course, if the enum range won't fit in an int, some larger size must
> be used for the enum. The C++ standard encourages implementors to keep
> enums no larger than an int when possible.
>
This is the difference. C does not allow enum *constants* to be larger
than int, thus no C enum type ever *needs* to be larger than int; and
it treats all enum *constants* as type int -- but then any object of
an enum type or its value which is actually narrower than int will in
nearly all cases be taken to int by the integer promotions anyway.

Well, also, in C it's easy(ier?) to do it yourself if the compiler
doesn't; you can just declare an object of an integer type that you
have determined is large enough for the range of an enum -- or,
perhaps, of the values you wish to use from an enum -- and blithely
use it wherever you need that enum; C++ requires a cast to enum.

- David.Thompson1 at worldnet.att.net


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allan_w@my-dejanews.com (Allan W) wrote in message news:<7f2735a5.0311171011.a851289@posting.google.com>...
> Steve Clamage <Stephen.Clamage@Sun.COM> wrote
>  > In C++, enums of different ranges are allowed to be of different sizes.
>  > For example, if the range fits in one byte, the compiler is allowed to
>  > make the enum type one byte in size (or two bytes, or sizeof(int)).
>
>     enum COLOR {
>        black=30001, brown, red, orange, yellow,
>        green, blue, violet, grey, white,
>        gold
>     };
>     int x = red; // Must be the value 30003
>
> Note that there are only 11 valid colors and their values are
> contiguous (gold - black + 1 = 11).
>
> Since I used a value which does not fit into a char, is the compiler
> required to use at least 2 bytes for a COLOR?

No. If UCHAR_MAX<=30011, it can use unsigned char. If
SCHAR_MAX<=30011, it can also used signed char.

> Or, is the compiler allowed to stuff these values into a byte? It could
> use the value 0 for black, and then implement the values I created by
> adding 30001 whenever it is translated back to an integral type.

No, it must use an underlying integral type with a range that's
sufficient to represent all of the actual enumerator values, not just
a code for those values.

>      COLOR color = grey;
>      cout << *(reinterpret_cast<short*>(&color));
>
> Assuming that short is at least 2 bytes, is this guaranteed to
> display 30009?

No. Even if short is at least 2 bytes, and UCHAR_MAX<30011, there's no
guarantee that the underlying type is actually 'short'. If it isn't,
there's no guarantee that &color even has the right alignment to be
converted to a short*. There's no guarantee that the first
sizeof(short) bytes of color contain the low order bits of the type
that's actually used, much less that those bits are stored in the same
order as the corresponding bits of a 'short'.


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