So ANSI C++ standard 14882:2003 is actually here and cost $273:

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=ISO%2FIEC+14882%3A2003

I am a little bit confused, that the current version cost so much and that
ANSI has changed its price policy. I think, that this will lead to
situation, that people will keep working with old version and that new
updated version will be reserved for rich people.
Maybe this will be a little start of the end of any reasonable discussion on
this working group, as people will be divided and some (the bigger part)
will not have exact information.

There is another point - is the older (1998) version still available? Try to
search it.

I have a link to it, but do not know, if it is still possible to buy it:

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=INCITS%2FISO%2FIEC+14882%2D1998


Best regards,
Petr Maxa.

"Andrew EMA Free!" <ComputerNerd8888@cox.net> wrote in message
news:b074d9ff.0311010818.3510ace4@posting.google.com...
> > As I understand it, the 2003 version is really just an errata fixed
> > version - there is only the corrections associated with the first batch
of
> > officially accepted defect reports applied. So apart from wanting old
> > spelling errors and a few ambiguities restored, there should be no
reason
> > to want the 1998 version anymore.
> >
> > If you are in a hurry, go ahead now and get it, but don't get distressed
> > if it disappears later. The only real need for the version number change
> > is bureaucracy.
>
> I am looking to buy the standards too.... For a project of mine... I
> am a little bit confused on what you are saying... Are you saying the
> 1998 is OK or wait and get the 2003?
>
> Thanks!,
> Andrew
>
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Andrew EMA Free! wrote:
>>As I understand it, the 2003 version is really just an errata fixed
>>version - there is only the corrections associated with the first batch of
>>officially accepted defect reports applied. So apart from wanting old
>>spelling errors and a few ambiguities restored, there should be no reason
>>to want the 1998 version anymore.
>>
>>If you are in a hurry, go ahead now and get it, but don't get distressed
>>if it disappears later. The only real need for the version number change
>>is bureaucracy.
>
>
> I am looking to buy the standards too.... For a project of mine... I
> am a little bit confused on what you are saying... Are you saying the
> 1998 is OK or wait and get the 2003?
>
> Thanks!,
> Andrew

The 2003 update consists of "bug fixes" (approved Defect Reports) and
editorial (spelling, punctuation) corrections. It has been officially
approved by ISO, and the ISO version is now available at the ANSI store
(www.ansi.org), among other places. ANSI charges a rather high price (US
$273).

The 2003 update is currently undergoing US approval, to be completed in
December 2003. When approval is complete, the PDF downloadable version
will be available from INCITS (www.incits.org) for US $18. INCITS tells
me it will be available for download by late December.

As noted by Francis Glassboro, you can also by a bound hardcopy version
published by John Wiley, at a reasonable price, much cheaper than tbe
old photocopied versions from ANSI.

--
Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@sun.com

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> I am saying they are essentially the same document. The 2003 version is
> just like a later printing, with some spelling/grammar corrections and a
> few ambiguious statements rewritten for clarity.

I think this is something of an understatement -- but you can see for
yourself if you like.
The complete list of changes can be found at
http://www.research.att.com/~ark/c++std/2003/pdf/revisions.pdf; it's a
203-page document.

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> So ANSI C++ standard 14882:2003 is actually here and cost $273:
>
>
http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=ISO%2FIEC+14882%3A2003
>
> I am a little bit confused, that the current version cost so much and that
> ANSI has changed its price policy.

I am assuming that's for a paper version, and they will eventually make the
machine-readable version available at a more reasonable price.

I doubt that many people will pay $273 for a paper version when they can
obtain the same text (albeit with different page numbering) for much less:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470846747

I expect the same book to be available directly in the USA before long.

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"Petr Maxa" wrote:
> So ANSI C++ standard 14882:2003 is actually here and cost $273:
>
> http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=ISO%2FIEC+14882%3A2003

Ouch!  That's an unexpected price hike.  Perhaps it's a mistake.

> I am a little bit confused, that the current version cost so much and that
> ANSI has changed its price policy. I think, that this will lead to
> situation, that people will keep working with old version and that new
> updated version will be reserved for rich people.
> Maybe this will be a little start of the end of any reasonable discussion on
> this working group, as people will be divided and some (the bigger part)
> will not have exact information.
<snip>

There is an unofficial list of revisions between the 1998 and 2003
standards available on Andrew Koenig's old pages at AT&T:

<http://www.research.att.com/~ark/c++std/2003/pdf/revisions.pdf>

Combine this with the 1998 standard and you have all the text of the
2003 standard, though not in a very convenient form.

Get it while you still can (ARK has left AT&T), but bear in mind it's
not an official publication.  Maybe someone who buys the standard can
verify that it agrees.

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In article <pan.2003.11.04.16.09.27.38562@sfbone.fsnet.co.uk>, Simon
Bone <Simon@sfbone.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>I am saying they are essentially the same document. The 2003 version is
>just like a later printing, with some spelling/grammar corrections and a
>few ambiguious statements rewritten for clarity.

No. The magnitude of the changes makes it much more than a simple
'corrected' reprinting. Usually a TC is simply published as a formal
errata to a Standard. In the case of C++ the magnitude of the
corrections made this undesirable in the view of WG21 and so we
requested (and ISO agreed) that a new document incorporating all the
corrections should be produced. I.e. C++ 2003 is a new corrected release
of C++ 1998. For convenience there is a document that lists the changes
but that is not the one that ISO has asked NBs to vote on.

C++ 2003 is available in printed form, published by John Wiley & Sons,
currently on European distribution (it will take another six weeks
before it is officially distributed in the US). For details see:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470846747/

the companion volume for C is:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470845732/
or
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0470845732/

However note that it is definitely cheaper (even including postage and
with the ukp riding high against the US$) to order from the UK where the
discounted price is 24-47ukp versus $65 in the US. Perhaps Amazon does
not realise that the BSI versions are word for word identical to the
NCITS (ANSI) ones. At current conversion rates a copy of each standard
will total 48.94ukp (postage free) or $80 (+ postage) or $130 (post free
from a US supplier)



--
Francis Glassborow      ACCU
If you are not using up-to-date virus protection you should not be reading
this. Viruses do not just hurt the infected but the whole community.

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> Get it while you still can (ARK has left AT&T), but bear in mind it's
> not an official publication.  Maybe someone who buys the standard can
> verify that it agrees.

Fear not -- I have also made the text of the corrections available at
http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/authors/koenig/c++std/revisions.pdf

Although this list of corrections is not official, it is as accurate as I
know how to make it.  It is generated by software from the same text that
was used to generate the 1998 standard, the 2003 standard, and the Wiley
book.

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> As noted by Francis Glassboro, you can also by a bound hardcopy version
> published by John Wiley, at a reasonable price, much cheaper than tbe
> old photocopied versions from ANSI.

I should point out that although the text of the book is the same as the
standard, the typography--in particular, the amount of text per page--is
not.  Therefore, page numbers in the book will be different from
corresponding page numbers in the standard.  However, clause, subclause, and
paragraph numbers will be the same.

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> As I understand it, the 2003 version is really just an errata fixed
> version - there is only the corrections associated with the first batch of
> officially accepted defect reports applied. So apart from wanting old
> spelling errors and a few ambiguities restored, there should be no reason
> to want the 1998 version anymore.
>
> If you are in a hurry, go ahead now and get it, but don't get distressed
> if it disappears later. The only real need for the version number change
> is bureaucracy.

I am looking to buy the standards too.... For a project of mine... I
am a little bit confused on what you are saying... Are you saying the
1998 is OK or wait and get the 2003?

Thanks!,
Andrew

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On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:38:02 +0000, Andrew  EMA Free! wrote:

>> As I understand it, the 2003 version is really just an errata fixed
>> version - there is only the corrections associated with the first batch of
>> officially accepted defect reports applied. So apart from wanting old
>> spelling errors and a few ambiguities restored, there should be no reason
>> to want the 1998 version anymore.
>>
>> If you are in a hurry, go ahead now and get it, but don't get distressed
>> if it disappears later. The only real need for the version number change
>> is bureaucracy.
>
> I am looking to buy the standards too.... For a project of mine... I
> am a little bit confused on what you are saying... Are you saying the
> 1998 is OK or wait and get the 2003?
>

I am saying they are essentially the same document. The 2003 version is
just like a later printing, with some spelling/grammar corrections and a
few ambiguious statements rewritten for clarity.

I hope that is clearer. The ISO rules, and most of the national standards
bodies, require a clear way of referring to these revised printings. That
is the "bureaucracy" I was referring to. From most users point of view,
there will be no difference, save a slightly easier read in the newer
version.

So, I don't think it really makes any difference which you get. If you
follow the links to the FAQ at the bottom of posts in this newsgroup you
can find all the corrections that have been offically accepted online. PDF
viewers can often support user annotations to electronic documents, so you
could manually note all those changes for whatever version you have
(although this is tedious...).

HTH,

Simon Bone


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Hello,

I've some question regarding the ANSI C++ standard ("INCITS/ISO/IEC
14882-1998"), which can be taken for 18$ from the following link:

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=INCITS%2FISO%2FIEC+14882%2D1998

What are the rules for the usage of this document. Is it sufficient to buy
one copy into company, or every developer, which wants to read the file
should get its own copy of the document?

Then when will be released the next official C++ standard?

Thanks,
Petr.


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"Petr Maxa" wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've some question regarding the ANSI C++ standard ("INCITS/ISO/IEC
> 14882-1998"), which can be taken for 18$ from the following link:
>
>
http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=INCITS%2FISO%2FIEC+14882%2D1998
>
> What are the rules for the usage of this document. Is it sufficient
> to buy
> one copy into company, or every developer, which wants to read the
> file
> should get its own copy of the document?

See http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/license/ANSI_EULA.pdf

>
> Then when will be released the next official C++ standard?

Probably around 2008, but there's no set schedule.  Typically ISO standards
are revised about once every 10 years.

-cd

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In article <bn0n5o$q2g$1@news.siemens.at>, "Petr Maxa" wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've some question regarding the ANSI C++ standard ("INCITS/ISO/IEC
> 14882-1998"), which can be taken for 18$ from the following link:
>
> http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=INCITS%2FISO%2FIEC+14882%2D1998
>
> What are the rules for the usage of this document. Is it sufficient to buy
> one copy into company, or every developer, which wants to read the file
> should get its own copy of the document?

The standard licence for ANSI standards is at
<http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/license/ANSI_EULA.pdf>.  The key
sentence, I think, is:

   "You may install one copy of the Product on, and permit access to it
    by, a single computer owned, leased or otherwise controlled by you."

I'm not certain that this is the licence they give for ISO 14882 but it
looks similar.

Depending on the country in which you live, you probably have additional
rights beyond those listed in the licence because copyright holders
cannot arbitrarily restrict the use of their work.  But I am not a
lawyer and could not advise on such matters.

> Then when will be released the next official C++ standard?

ISO has now published the 2003 version:
<http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=38110>.
However, they are asking CHF 364 (EUR 240) for it in PDF form, so it's
probably a good idea to wait until ANSI offers it.

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On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:50:40 +0000, Petr Maxa wrote:

> Thanks for the tip. Does anybody know when ANSI will offer 14882-2003 and
> what will be the price policy? Do You think that after releasing of 2003
> version of 14882 document the 1998 version will be available in any form. In
> short would You suggest me to by now the 1998 version or wait until the ansi
> 2003 version is released?
>

As I understand it, the 2003 version is really just an errata fixed
version - there is only the corrections associated with the first batch of
officially accepted defect reports applied. So apart from wanting old
spelling errors and a few ambiguities restored, there should be no reason
to want the 1998 version anymore.

If you are in a hurry, go ahead now and get it, but don't get distressed
if it disappears later. The only real need for the version number change
is bureaucracy.

HTH,

Simon Bone

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"Ben Hutchings" <do-not-spam-benh@bwsint.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbpa1h6.1ho.do-not-spam-benh@tin.bwsint.com...
> In article <bn0n5o$q2g$1@news.siemens.at>, "Petr Maxa" wrote:

>
> ISO has now published the 2003 version:
>
<http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=38110
>.
> However, they are asking CHF 364 (EUR 240) for it in PDF form, so it's
> probably a good idea to wait until ANSI offers it.
>

Thanks for the tip. Does anybody know when ANSI will offer 14882-2003 and
what will be the price policy? Do You think that after releasing of 2003
version of 14882 document the 1998 version will be available in any form. In
short would You suggest me to by now the 1998 version or wait until the ansi
2003 version is released?

Thanks,
Petr.


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