"Greg Comeau" <comeau@panix.com> wrote

> >And can I find a compilation somewhere that gives all the differences
> >between CD2 and the final standard?  (Or it got standadized as is?)
>
> I'm not aware that anybody ever made such a list per se.

Pity.

> Out of curiosity, how will it help you years later?

Who thinks so much ahead? ;-)  Today I'd find such a list a big help. And
everyone else who read through drafts, and is not eager to read the whole
thing again. Even if I make up my mind, chances are high I miss some
differences.

Well, after all probably as the conforming compilers start to arrive those
list will appear as the 'changes from the last version'.

Paul





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In article <003901c024ba$408021f0$aa0e38c3@bpnt>, Balog Pal
<pasa@lib.hu> writes
>Who thinks so much ahead? ;-)  Today I'd find such a list a big help.
>And everyone else who read through drafts, and is not eager to read the
>whole thing again. Even if I make up my mind, chances are high I miss
>some differences.

You mean you already understand how all the different sub-clauses in CD2
interact? Wow, I wish I did. I am happy to use the Standard and keep
digesting bits as I grow older. Electing to integrate the significance
of changes, the results of defect reports etc. onto CD2 + the
differences from that and the release version seems perverted to me.


Francis Glassborow      Association of C & C++ Users
64 Southfield Rd
Oxford OX4 1PA          +44(0)1865 246490
All opinions are mine and do not represent those of any organisation

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In article <003901c024ba$408021f0$aa0e38c3@bpnt>,
Balog Pal <pasa@lib.hu> wrote:
>"Greg Comeau" <comeau@panix.com> wrote
>> >And can I find a compilation somewhere that gives all the differences
>> >between CD2 and the final standard?  (Or it got standadized as is?)
>>
>> I'm not aware that anybody ever made such a list per se.
>
>Pity.

Perhaps.

>> Out of curiosity, how will it help you years later?
>
>Who thinks so much ahead? ;-)  Today I'd find such a list a big help. And
>everyone else who read through drafts, and is not eager to read the whole
>thing again. Even if I make up my mind, chances are high I miss some
>differences.

People shouldn't be reading drafts, if they feel they must read
the document, then they should read the standard.

>Well, after all probably as the conforming compilers start to arrive
>those list will appear as the 'changes from the last version'.

If that is useful in some way, then check out
http://www.comeaucomputing.com/features.html

- Greg
--
Comeau Computing / Comeau C/C++ ("so close" 4.2.44 betas starting)
TRY Comeau C++ ONLINE at http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
Email: comeau@comeaucomputing.com / WEB: http://www.comeaucomputing.com

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In article <008a01c01ff1$8e5c0ab0$c20e38c3@bpnt>,
Balog Pal <pasa@lib.hu> wrote:
>http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?q=ANSI+C%2B%2B+standard+pdf&kl=XX&pg=
>q&Translate=on
>
>> first link yo'll get is a copy of standard.
>
>And can I find a compilation somewhere that gives all the differences
>between CD2 and the final standard?  (Or it got standadized as is?)

I'm not aware that anybody ever made such a list per se.
Out of curiosity, how will it help you years later?

- Greg
--
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TRY Comeau C++ ONLINE at http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
Email: comeau@comeaucomputing.com / WEB: http://www.comeaucomputing.com

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Jonathan Thornburg wrote:
>
> Acrobat is also not the world's only pdf reader.  I'm quite partial
> to xpdf (   http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/   ): it's about 1/5 the size
> and about 5 times faster than acrobat.  And no annoying splash screen,
> either...
Last time I tried to play with this, it had a big hole in it because
of the LZW issues, and you couldn't just compile and go.

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go to Altavista.com:

http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?q=ANSI+C%2B%2B+standard+pdf&kl=XX&pg=
q&Translate=on


first link yo'll get is a copy of standard.

Alexei.
--
---------------
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."
   Alan Kay
"Phil Edwards" <pedwards@dmapub.dma.org> wrote in message
news:8peqpr$eep$1@dmapub.dma.org...
>
> Andrei Alexandrescu <andrewalex@hotmail.com> wrote:
> + "Anders Pytte" <anders@milkweed.com> wrote in message
> + news:B5DC720F.BD29%anders@milkweed.com...
> + > Having paid for it before the change, can I now get a unprotected
copy? I
> + > have found this limitation very annoying also.
> +
> + I'm in the same situation. It would be very nice if ANSI would grant
rights
> + of re-downloading to all who have bought prior to the date when the Iron
> + Curtain of non-copying fell. They have archives and email addresses.
>
> I thought about a couple different approaches:  pestering ANSI; finding
one
> of those PDF-password-cracking programs; converting to some other format.
> For a while I was using one of those plugins that converts to plaintext,
> intended for text-to-speech conversion utilities.
>
> Then over this last summer, I realized that I was spending more
> money on gasoline/petrol in a given week than what a new permanently
> unrestricted electronic copy would cost me.  After a few minutes of
> putting-it-in-perspective thought, I bought it again.
>
> I haven't lost sleep over the eighteen bucks.  If I do, I can switch to
> a lower-grade octane for a while.  :-)
>
>
> Phil
> P.S.- For future standards of whatever language, I will be waiting until
>       an unlocked copy is available.  /Then/ I'll buy it.
>
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>


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Alexei A. Polkhanov <apolkhanov@carnaby.com> wrote:
+ go to Altavista.com:
+
+ http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?q=ANSI+C%2B%2B+standard+pdf&kl=XX&pg=
+ q&Translate=on
+
+ first link yo'll get is a copy of standard.

Yes, to the CD2 draft from 1996.  Thanks anyhow, but I'll stick with the
unlocked copy of the real IS that I said I bought.  :-)

The CD2 draft is useful for things which are known to have not changed
during the last few years of the standardization effort, but not good
enough for fine details.


Phil

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>
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?q=ANSI+C%2B%2B+standard+pdf&kl=XX&pg=
q&Translate=on

> first link yo'll get is a copy of standard.

And can I find a compilation somewhere that gives all the differences
between CD2 and the final standard?  (Or it got standadized as is?)

Paul



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>> If you pay Adobe a certain amount of $$, they will give you the
>> program that [properly used] will allow you to remove that
>> limitation.  The program is called Acrobat [not Reader]. :-)

In article <39B7A136.F6899C43@sensor.com>, Ron Natalie  <ron@sensor.com> wrote:
>If you search around on the web for the word "acrocrk" you'll find
>a version of the reader that doesn't have the restriction either.

Acrobat is also not the world's only pdf reader.  I'm quite partial
to xpdf (   http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/   ): it's about 1/5 the size
and about 5 times faster than acrobat.  And no annoying splash screen,
either...

--
-- Jonathan Thornburg <jthorn@thp.univie.ac.at>
   http://www.thp.univie.ac.at/~jthorn/home.html
   Universitaet Wien (Vienna, Austria) / Institut fuer Theoretische Physik
   "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless
    means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral." - Freire / Oxfam

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Victor Bazarov wrote:
>
> "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> wrote...
> >
> > Sebastian Moleski wrote:
> >
> > > I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a non-profit,
> > > non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to put
> > > such a restriction on this document.
> >
> > Adobe :-)
>
> If you pay Adobe a certain amount of $$, they will give you the
> program that [properly used] will allow you to remove that
> limitation.  The program is called Acrobat [not Reader]. :-)

Not quite. The protection requires a password to unlock. (I don't
know what the password is, and have not tried to guess it.)

--
Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@sun.com

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Victor Bazarov wrote:
>
>
> If you pay Adobe a certain amount of $$, they will give you the
> program that [properly used] will allow you to remove that
> limitation.  The program is called Acrobat [not Reader]. :-)
>
If you search around on the web for the word "acrocrk" you'll find
a version of the reader that doesn't have the restriction either.

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"James Kuyper" <kuyper@wizard.net>:
...
> When enough people complained, they
> turned it on (though by then it was too late for me).

Same here. It is a pain.

Sebastian Moleski


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On Thu,  7 Sep 2000 23:39:36 CST, Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com> wrote:

} If you search around on the web for the word "acrocrk" you'll find
} a version of the reader that doesn't have the restriction either.

Actually, the correct way of doing it is going to http://astalavista.box.sk
and searching for "acrobat reader" (without the quotes).

The moral, legal and ethical implications of using this approach are left
as an exercise to the reader.


Have fun,
Alex.

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Please remove the "---filter---" from the address for replying.
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"Anders Pytte" <anders@milkweed.com> wrote...
> in article 8p6jnf$8al$1@bob.news.rcn.net, Victor Bazarov at
> vAbazarov@dAnai.com wrote on 9/6/00 8:44 PM:
>
> > "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> wrote...
> >>
> >>
> >> Sebastian Moleski wrote:
> >>
> >>> I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a
non-profit,
> >>> non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to
put
> > such a
> >>> restriction on this document.
> >>
> >> Adobe :-)
> >
> > If you pay Adobe a certain amount of $$, they will give you the
> > program that [properly used] will allow you to remove that
> > limitation.  The program is called Acrobat [not Reader]. :-)
>
> Are you sure there si no password protection?

If I tell you what to do so that you can copy and paste from the
Standard (yes, the document itself remains intact) using ABSOLUTELY
FREELY AVAILABLE operation in Acrobat, would it be a violation of
my license agreement with ANSI?  Quite possibly, yes.  I misplaced
mine and can't verify whether the operation is allowed or not.  A
hint: it involves export.  I am not saying I did it, and I am not
advising you to do that, either.  I am just saying that I think the
method I found might work.

Victor
--
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Victor Bazarov wrote:
>
> If I tell you what to do so that you can copy and paste from the
> Standard (yes, the document itself remains intact) using ABSOLUTELY
> FREELY AVAILABLE operation in Acrobat, would it be a violation of
> my license agreement with ANSI?

The license agreement says you'll install the electronic copy on
a single machine and otherwise treat the material according to
it's underlying copyright protection.  Since excerpting it for
review purposes (such as when we are discussing it on comp.std.c++)
is permitted under the fair use doctrine, it is perfectly legal.

Whether you had to retype it or you used cut-and-paste makes no
difference, it's permitted.  It was my point to ANSI (successful
apparently) that all disabling cut-and-paste did was make it difficult
to legally use the document and did nothing to limit illegal uses.

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"Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> wrote...
>
>
> Victor Bazarov wrote:
> >
> > If I tell you what to do so that you can copy and paste from the
> > Standard (yes, the document itself remains intact) using ABSOLUTELY
> > FREELY AVAILABLE operation in Acrobat, would it be a violation of
> > my license agreement with ANSI?
>
> The license agreement says you'll install the electronic copy on
> a single machine and otherwise treat the material according to
> it's underlying copyright protection.  Since excerpting it for
> review purposes (such as when we are discussing it on comp.std.c++)
> is permitted under the fair use doctrine, it is perfectly legal.

Well, the problem is, you see, that in order to make it possible to
copy-n-paste from the file, one has to make a copy of it.  And the
purpose of making the copy is NOT a backup-protection-from-disaster-
kinda-thing.

>
> Whether you had to retype it or you used cut-and-paste makes no
> difference, it's permitted.  It was my point to ANSI (successful
> apparently) that all disabling cut-and-paste did was make it difficult
> to legally use the document and did nothing to limit illegal uses.

I agree that ANSI ought to allow that.  Otherwise, they actually
encourage people to do something about it, thus possibly violating
the copyright of ANSI.

Is there a way the C++ Committee could petition ANSI to make it
possible to copy the text?

Victor
--
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"Victor Bazarov" <vAbazarov@dAnai.com> writes:

>"Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> wrote...
>>
>> Victor Bazarov wrote:
>> >
>> > If I tell you what to do so that you can copy and paste from the
>> > Standard (yes, the document itself remains intact) using ABSOLUTELY
>> > FREELY AVAILABLE operation in Acrobat, would it be a violation of
>> > my license agreement with ANSI?
>>
>> The license agreement says you'll install the electronic copy on
>> a single machine and otherwise treat the material according to
>> it's underlying copyright protection.  Since excerpting it for
>> review purposes (such as when we are discussing it on comp.std.c++)
>> is permitted under the fair use doctrine, it is perfectly legal.
>
>Well, the problem is, you see, that in order to make it possible to
>copy-n-paste from the file, one has to make a copy of it.  And the
>purpose of making the copy is NOT a backup-protection-from-disaster-
>kinda-thing.

No, but the purpose of making that copy _is_ a fair use.

The fact that you may have to copy the whole document in order to
quote from it does not imply that the copying is not fair use.
It is a well-established legal fact that even copying the whole
of a copyright document can be fair use, in appropriate circumstances.
And I can hardly imagine more appropriate circumstances than these.

--
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au>  |  "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh>  |  of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3        |     -- the last words of T. S. Garp.

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Victor Bazarov <vAbazarov@dAnai.com> wrote in message
news:8pjng3$5db$1@bob.news.rcn.net...

> I agree that ANSI ought to allow that.  Otherwise, they actually
> encourage people to do something about it, thus possibly violating
> the copyright of ANSI.
>
> Is there a way the C++ Committee could petition ANSI to make it
> possible to copy the text?

Yes, it should be portions of the text, not the whole thing. There is a
clear difference between copying the whole text and quoting portions of it
in an argument. The latter is likely to enhance the standard because free
debate with quoted portions means that any defects are more likely to be
found.

Stephen Howe



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"Anders Pytte" <anders@milkweed.com> wrote in message
news:B5DC720F.BD29%anders@milkweed.com...
> Having paid for it before the change, can I now get a unprotected copy? I
> have found this limitation very annoying also.

I'm in the same situation. It would be very nice if ANSI would grant rights
of re-downloading to all who have bought prior to the date when the Iron
Curtain of non-copying fell. They have archives and email addresses.

To whom could we address to?


Andrei


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Andrei Alexandrescu <andrewalex@hotmail.com> wrote:
+ "Anders Pytte" <anders@milkweed.com> wrote in message
+ news:B5DC720F.BD29%anders@milkweed.com...
+ > Having paid for it before the change, can I now get a unprotected copy? I
+ > have found this limitation very annoying also.
+
+ I'm in the same situation. It would be very nice if ANSI would grant rights
+ of re-downloading to all who have bought prior to the date when the Iron
+ Curtain of non-copying fell. They have archives and email addresses.

I thought about a couple different approaches:  pestering ANSI; finding one
of those PDF-password-cracking programs; converting to some other format.
For a while I was using one of those plugins that converts to plaintext,
intended for text-to-speech conversion utilities.

Then over this last summer, I realized that I was spending more
money on gasoline/petrol in a given week than what a new permanently
unrestricted electronic copy would cost me.  After a few minutes of
putting-it-in-perspective thought, I bought it again.

I haven't lost sleep over the eighteen bucks.  If I do, I can switch to
a lower-grade octane for a while.  :-)


Phil
P.S.- For future standards of whatever language, I will be waiting until
      an unlocked copy is available.  /Then/ I'll buy it.

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I am thinking of picking up the $18 dollar standard. I assume that it is a
PDF file which you can view with Acrobat Reader.

Can you copy-and-paste portions of the standard (which is useful in quoting
paragraphs when forming an argument). As I understand, whether you
can/cannot is a function of the original creator of the document, not the
viewer.

thanks

Stephen Howe


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I don't think you can copy and paste from the standard pdf.

Stephen Howe <SPAMGUARDstephen.howe@dial.pipex.co.uk> wrote:

> I am thinking of picking up the $18 dollar standard. I assume that it is a
> PDF file which you can view with Acrobat Reader.
>
> Can you copy-and-paste portions of the standard (which is useful in quoting
> paragraphs when forming an argument). As I understand, whether you
> can/cannot is a function of the original creator of the document, not the
> viewer.
>
> thanks
>
> Stephen Howe
>
>
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--
Joe Chan

Remove "nospam" to get my address.

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Stephen Howe wrote:

> I am thinking of picking up the $18 dollar standard. I assume that it is a
> PDF file which you can view with Acrobat Reader.
>
> Can you copy-and-paste portions of the standard (which is useful in quoting
> paragraphs when forming an argument). As I understand, whether you
> can/cannot is a function of the original creator of the document, not the
> viewer.
>

AFAIK, early versions of the PDF did not allow copying, but new versions do.  (My paper version allows only destructive cut+paste, so I end up copy-typing ;)

-- James Dennett <jdennett@acm.org>

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Stephen Howe wrote:
>
> I am thinking of picking up the $18 dollar standard. I assume that it is a
> PDF file which you can view with Acrobat Reader.
>
> Can you copy-and-paste portions of the standard (which is useful in quoting
> paragraphs when forming an argument). As I understand, whether you
> can/cannot is a function of the original creator of the document, not the
> viewer.

The early ones were locked out.  A number of us beat up on ANSI enough that
they changed their tune and released it (and also the ANSI C spec) in unlocked
format.  They didn't go back and replace the older ones (except for people like
me who griped sufficiently).

As far as legality goes, quoting the material is perfectly legal for commentary
(such as newsgroup discussion purporses).  This is really about all cut and paste
was good for.  It was pointed out to ANSI that PDF still let you print as many
copies (violating the copyright) as you wanted but not being able to select text
only locked out legitimate use.

There's also a cracked version of acrobat reader that ignores the protection bits.

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No. But you can make a screen shot, use an OCR program to read it back in as
text, and copy that. IMO, it was completely stupid to turn off c'n'p because
you can circumvent it rather easily.

I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a non-profit,
non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to put such a
restriction on this document.

Regards,

Sebastian Moleski


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Joe Chan wrote:
>
> I don't think you can copy and paste from the standard pdf.
>
You can if you bought it after the first few months of it being out.
ANSI removed the protection bit after enough of us complained.

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Sebastian Moleski wrote:

> I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a non-profit,
> non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to put such a
> restriction on this document.

Adobe :-)

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"Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> wrote...
>
>
> Sebastian Moleski wrote:
>
> > I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a non-profit,
> > non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to put
such a
> > restriction on this document.
>
> Adobe :-)

If you pay Adobe a certain amount of $$, they will give you the
program that [properly used] will allow you to remove that
limitation.  The program is called Acrobat [not Reader]. :-)

Victor
--
Please remove capital A's from my address when replying by mail



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in article 8p6jnf$8al$1@bob.news.rcn.net, Victor Bazarov at
vAbazarov@dAnai.com wrote on 9/6/00 8:44 PM:

> "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> wrote...
>>
>>
>> Sebastian Moleski wrote:
>>
>>> I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a non-profit,
>>> non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to put
> such a
>>> restriction on this document.
>>
>> Adobe :-)
>
> If you pay Adobe a certain amount of $$, they will give you the
> program that [properly used] will allow you to remove that
> limitation.  The program is called Acrobat [not Reader]. :-)

Are you sure there si no password protection?

Anders.

--
Anders Pytte                                   Milkweed Software
PO Box 32                                  voice: (802) 586-2545
Craftsbury, VT 05826                  email: anders@milkweed.com

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Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com> wrote in comp.std.c++:
>The early ones were locked out.  A number of us beat up on ANSI enough that
>they changed their tune and released it (and also the ANSI C spec) in unlocked
>format.  They didn't go back and replace the older ones (except for people like
>me who griped sufficiently).

In fairness to ANSI, the threshold of "sufficiently" seemed to be
pretty low. I complained exactly once, and a couple of weeks later
got an e-mail from ANSI with temporary permission to download a copy
that did allow copying text from the PDF.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
                                             http://oakroadsystems.com
My reply address is correct as is. The courtesy of providing a correct
reply address is more important to me than time spent deleting spam.

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Sebastian Moleski wrote:
>
> No. But you can make a screen shot, use an OCR program to read it back in as
> text, and copy that. IMO, it was completely stupid to turn off c'n'p because
> you can circumvent it rather easily.
>
> I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a non-profit,
> non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to put such a
> restriction on this document.

There are no laws governing such issues. The standard is protected by
copyright laws, and ANSI has a corresponding right to place restrictions
on the forms in which they're willing to deliver it to you. In this
case, I gather that the cut-and-paste flag was turned off without a lot
of thought given to the matter. When enough people complained, they
turned it on (though by then it was too late for me).

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Doh! I can copy and paste from my copy, and I bought it the first day it
was announced in this newsgroup. Anyone knows how I can get a copy that
can be copied?

Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com> wrote:

> Joe Chan wrote:
> >
> > I don't think you can copy and paste from the standard pdf.
> >
> You can if you bought it after the first few months of it being out.
> ANSI removed the protection bit after enough of us complained.
>
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--
Joe Chan

Remove "nospam" to get my address.

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In article <8p3h91$5ef$1@soap.pipex.net>,
  "Stephen Howe" <SPAMGUARDstephen.howe@dial.pipex.co.uk> wrote:
> I am thinking of picking up the $18 dollar standard. I assume that it
is a
> PDF file which you can view with Acrobat Reader.
>
> Can you copy-and-paste portions of the standard (which is useful in
quoting
> paragraphs when forming an argument). As I understand, whether you
> can/cannot is a function of the original creator of the document, not
the
> viewer.

The copy I have in front of me allows copy and paste.
AIUI initially they did not allow and then changed their
mind.

Malcolm


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

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in article 39B650B6.E0507D67@sensor.com, Ron Natalie at ron@sensor.com wrote
on 9/6/00 5:16 PM:

>
>
> Joe Chan wrote:
>>
>> I don't think you can copy and paste from the standard pdf.
>>
> You can if you bought it after the first few months of it being out.
> ANSI removed the protection bit after enough of us complained.

Argh!

Having paid for it before the change, can I now get a unprotected copy? I
have found this limitation very annoying also.

Thanks,

Anders.


--
Anders Pytte                                   Milkweed Software
PO Box 32                                  voice: (802) 586-2545
Craftsbury, VT 05826                  email: anders@milkweed.com

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On Thu,  7 Sep 2000 00:44:30 GMT, "Victor Bazarov"
<vAbazarov@dAnai.com> wrote in comp.std.c++:

> "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> wrote...
> >
> >
> > Sebastian Moleski wrote:
> >
> > > I wish some court would make a ruling on that. ANSI is a non-profit,
> > > non-private organization. I don't understand who allowed them to put
> such a
> > > restriction on this document.
> >
> > Adobe :-)
>
> If you pay Adobe a certain amount of $$, they will give you the
> program that [properly used] will allow you to remove that
> limitation.  The program is called Acrobat [not Reader]. :-)
>
> Victor

Actually Acrobat Exchange will not remove the copy protection unless
you know the password used to apply it to the file, unless the
originator foolishly forgot to use one, which was not true of the
original ANSI version.

Of course if you have Exchange, you can print the document to the
Distiller and create a new PDF file which is not identical but has the
identical document.

But the copies they are currently selling are not copy disabled, nor
is the C99 standard.

Jack Klein
--
Home: http://jackklein.home.att.net

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Stan Brown wrote:
>
> Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com> wrote in comp.std.c++:
> >The early ones were locked out.  A number of us beat up on ANSI enough that
> >they changed their tune and released it (and also the ANSI C spec) in unlocked
> >format.  They didn't go back and replace the older ones (except for people like
> >me who griped sufficiently).
>
> In fairness to ANSI, the threshold of "sufficiently" seemed to be
> pretty low. I complained exactly once, and a couple of weeks later
> got an e-mail from ANSI with temporary permission to download a copy
> that did allow copying text from the PDF.
>

Lucky you.  I'm still screwed out of $18 because I downloaded the CSPEC a day
too early and got the old stinking scanned one rather than the new C99 one.
They won't even answer my emails.

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