Francis Glassborow wrote:

> Well you have always been able (technically) to copy the whole document.
>
> Legally, the normal 'fair use' rules apply.
>

Actually "fair use" has no bearing on the PDF.  The license agreeement
precludes copying.  However, the underlying document itself is protected
by simple copyright and fair use applies there.  It was this argument
that got ANSI to admit that cut/paste should be allowed.

I don't really understand all the hoopla in their license agreement.
It's no more legal to make copies of the PDF file than it is to dump
the paper standard in the photocopier, just a lot easier to do.
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Fred Jackson wrote:
>
> 3) Will there be any limit to the block size of the material to be
> copied?
> (You see where I am going - could you copy the whole document at once?)
> - technically speaking, rather than legally.

Sure you can. You just use the DOS COPY command. There's not much they can
do to prevent you from doing that, which is why the PDF copy protection is
so silly.

--

Ciao,                       Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                        mailto:pderocco@ix.netcom.com


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In article <7so64o$472$1@smaug.cape.com>, Fred Jackson
<fjackson@imetrix.com> writes
>Hallelujah!  Now the questions become:
>1) Will the copy-enabled version become the only version?
>2) When/where will the copy-enabled version be made available
>electronically?
>3) Will there be any limit to the block size of the material to be copied?
>(You see where I am going - could you copy the whole document at once?)
>- technically speaking, rather than legally.

Well you have always been able (technically) to copy the whole document.

Legally, the normal 'fair use' rules apply.


Francis Glassborow      Journal Editor, Association of C & C++ Users
64 Southfield Rd
Oxford OX4 1PA          +44(0)1865 246490
All opinions are mine and do not represent those of any organisation
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Fred Jackson wrote:
>
> Hallelujah!  Now the questions become:
> 1) Will the copy-enabled version become the only version?
> 2) When/where will the copy-enabled version be made available
> electronically?

The Copy Enabled version has been the one they've been distributing
for a few months now.  If you bought the older non-enabled one, you're
out of luck, you'll have to spend another $18 for a new download.
To ANSI's credit, the did send me a new one in exchange for all the
back and forth on the legal issues.

> 3) Will there be any limit to the block size of the material to be copied?

This is a limitation of the Acrobat reader and what you're going to paste
it to I think.  It certainly seems to let me select multiple pages, of course
trying to drag accross 700+ pages of document is going to be a bit
tedious.   SHIFT-A just does the whole page.

I don't know if Acrobat itself (rather than the reader) will allow you
any easier access, and I don't really care.  I am only concerned with
fair use quoting of passages for review here and not violation of
the copyright.
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[This followup was also e-mailed to the cited author for speed -- please
follow up in the newsgroup.]

zivca@netvision.net.il (Ziv Caspi) wrote in comp.std.c++:
>Would they be willing (or anyone else in this group) to provide
>a diff/patch?

I tried, but I don't have the necessary tools.

The read-only PDF version is 2,860,601 bytes. The copy-enabled PDF
version is 2,860,597 bytes. I ran a comparison (using FC /B in DOS) and
the diffs file was 47,827,338 bytes.

(I know it would be illegal to distribute a copy-enabled version of the
standard, even to someone who says he has purchased the read-only
version. I'm guessing that to distribute a patch of a few bytes would be
legal, since it would contain no information itself and would be useless
without the PDF file. Anybody know for sure whether I'm right?)

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/

"It's my opinion, and it's very true."
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On 24 Sep 1999 16:42:44 GMT, Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com> wrote:

>They went on to state that they don't intend however, to provide
>replacement copies for those who already purchased locked copies.

Would they be willing (or anyone else in this group) to provide
a diff/patch?

---------------------------------------------
Ziv Caspi
zivca@netvision.net.il


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Hallelujah!  Now the questions become:
1) Will the copy-enabled version become the only version?
2) When/where will the copy-enabled version be made available
electronically?
3) Will there be any limit to the block size of the material to be copied?
(You see where I am going - could you copy the whole document at once?)
- technically speaking, rather than legally.

Ron Natalie <ron@sensor.com> wrote in message
news:37EB9DD3.590111A0@sensor.com...
>
> When several of us inquired about versions of the electronic ISO C++ spec
with
> text selection enabled, we got messages back from ANSI saying that cut and
> paste violated our license agreement.  I argued that the underlying paper
> document is protected by copyright, and that protection allows excerpting
> for review purposes (such as comp.std.c), that the cut/paste feature only
> allowed more convenient form of what I could do legally by retyping the
> lines.
>
> I got this message on Wednesday:
>
>   We have discussed the copy and paste capability for the C++ with the
>   appropriate parties and are pleased to advise you that the copy and
>   paste function can be utilized for this C++ standard.
>
> They went on to state that they don't intend however, to provide
> replacement copies for those who already purchased locked copies.
>
> -Ron
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Ron Natalie wrote:
> [...]
> I got this message on Wednesday:
>   We have discussed the copy and paste capability for the C++ with the
>   appropriate parties and are pleased to advise you that the copy and
>   paste function can be utilized for this C++ standard.
> They went on to state that they don't intend however, to provide
> replacement copies for those who already purchased locked copies.
>

 Anybody caught in this situation may find these links useful.
 http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~laird/PDF/
 http://www.ozemail.com.au/~geoffk/
<l8r>
-het


--
"you don't really appreciate how smart a moron is
 until you try to design a robot..." -a robotics designer

 Harvey Taylor         Internet: het@despam.portal.ca
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When several of us inquired about versions of the electronic ISO C++ spec with
text selection enabled, we got messages back from ANSI saying that cut and
paste violated our license agreement.  I argued that the underlying paper
document is protected by copyright, and that protection allows excerpting
for review purposes (such as comp.std.c), that the cut/paste feature only
allowed more convenient form of what I could do legally by retyping the
lines.

I got this message on Wednesday:

  We have discussed the copy and paste capability for the C++ with the
  appropriate parties and are pleased to advise you that the copy and
  paste function can be utilized for this C++ standard.

They went on to state that they don't intend however, to provide
replacement copies for those who already purchased locked copies.

-Ron



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