>Could I ask how it is posible that this post made it by the
   >moderators? It appears to contain no content or information,
   >merely rumour and innuendo. Whatever Mr. Pedriana might surmise,
   >the next verion of VC++ either will or will not be standard
   >compliant, and will be judged accordingly at the time.

I see the statements as being very applicable to this news group.
People here are largely interested in the implementation,
interpretation, and understanding of the C++ standard. As such, how
various major commercial compiler sources in the world respond to the
evolution (now finalization) of the language is something that affects
us every day.

Now, perhaps you took those comments as being an attempt to throw mud
at the vendor in question. This is simply not the case. It is merely
an observation based on past experiences that may help others make
judgements in what they might expect from compilers in the future.

If you talk to Microsoft, they are pretty forthcoming about how they
are trying to balance their efforts on the product and follow the
standard as well as they can, given the compatibility issues that they
are stuck with. While it may be argued about how that balance is
weighed by them, the need to balance these issues nevertheless exists.

Unlike some, I have no personal problem with the current MS compiler
implementation. This is perhaps partly due to the fact that I am not
a language lawyer and the fact that I value the quality of code
generation more than fine C++ interpretation details. MS generates
pretty good x86 code.

Paul
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As an aside, from looking in some depth how the VC++
compiler works with respect to syntax and the language
standard, and based on information given to me by
people who have a knowledge of the history of that
compiler's development, I surmise it may be a long time
before we see a robust ANSI C++ version of VC++.

Quite simply, the implementation is a mess, and getting it
to comply with the standard would involve endless band-aids
upon band-aids. So don't be surprised if even VC++7 doesn't
accurately follow the standard.

I imagine that some amount of internal MS code dependencies
may also contribute to these issues. That's one result of
a single company writing the OS, the compiler for that OS,
and many of the big applications that run on that OS (granted,
MSOffice itself is written in C and not C++).

Paul
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>Quite simply, the implementation is a mess, and getting it
>to comply with the standard would involve endless band-aids
>upon band-aids.

The following code will work if you use the /Za parameter.  This
disables language extentions.  Unfortunately this will also prevent
<windows.h> from compiling. Maybee Microsoft does not want to rewrite
their header files to be compatable with the standard.

for(int i=0;i<10;i++);
for(int i=0;i<10;i++);
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>I imagine that some amount of internal MS code dependencies
>may also contribute to these issues. That's one result of
>a single company writing the OS, the compiler for that OS,
>and many of the big applications that run on that OS

In fairness, you should recognize that MS and all the other compiler makers
have a responsibility to all those other developers whose legacy code might
be broken by a 100% compliant compiler. Given that the common model for
technical support in a highly dynamic market is to support only the latest
release of a product, it would be irresponsible to take anything less than a
conservative approach to implementing and releasing the innovations of the
standard.
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Paul Pedriana <paulp@ccnet.com> wrote in article
<3732ebfb.2688487311@news.ccnet.com>...
> As an aside, from looking in some depth how the VC++
> compiler works with respect to syntax and the language
> standard, and based on information given to me by
> people who have a knowledge of the history of that
> compiler's development, I surmise it may be a long time
> before we see a robust ANSI C++ version of VC++.

Could I ask how it is posible that this post made it by the moderators?  It
appears to contain no content or information, merely rumour and innuendo.
Whatever Mr. Pedriana might surmise, the next verion of VC++ either will or
will not be standard compliant, and will be judged accordingly at the time.

 [Moderator's reply:
  The comp.std.c++ charter requires posts to be "cogent",
  but posts are allowed to contain opinions rather than facts.
  Paul Pedriana and Daniel Parker are both welcome to express
  their opinions here.

  It goes without saying, of course, that the moderators
  do not necessarily agree with all the opinions posted.
  Nor do we check posts for correctness.  We just verify
  that posts are on-topic and abide by the charter.
   -moderator (fjh).]

Regards,
Daniel Parker danielp@no_spam.anabasis.com
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On 18 Apr 99 13:15:03 GMT, sean.shubin@www.anything.com (Sean
Shubin) wrote:

>>Quite simply, the implementation is a mess, and getting it
>>to comply with the standard would involve endless band-aids
>>upon band-aids.
>
>The following code will work if you use the /Za parameter.  This
>disables language extentions.  Unfortunately this will also prevent
><windows.h> from compiling. Maybee Microsoft does not want to rewrite
>their header files to be compatable with the standard.
>
>for(int i=0;i<10;i++);
>for(int i=0;i<10;i++);

Preventing <windows.h> from compiling is, as far as the standard
goes, unimportant.

There is a much more important problem.  -Za prevents several
standard headers, such as <iostream> from compiling.  This makes
-Za unsuable.
--
Michael M Rubenstein
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Sean Shubin wrote in message <371765cd.52437851@news1.occa.home.net>...
>>Quite simply, the implementation is a mess, and getting it
>>to comply with the standard would involve endless band-aids
>>upon band-aids.
>
>The following code will work if you use the /Za parameter.  This
>disables language extentions.  Unfortunately this will also prevent
><windows.h> from compiling. Maybee Microsoft does not want to rewrite
>their header files to be compatable with the standard.
>
>for(int i=0;i<10;i++);
>for(int i=0;i<10;i++);

Another way to get correct scoping rules for for-loop variables is to use
the
following pre-processor directive. This will help prepare your code in case
Microsoft ever fixes  their compiler. (or if you want to port your code to
a different compiler/OS)

#define for if (1) for

Cheers!
--
Brent McPherson
mcpherson @ dial . pipex . com
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