In article <haberg-1609981326120001@sl107.modempool.kth.se> haberg@REMOVE.matematik.su.se (Hans Aberg) writes:
 > (Jerry Coffin) wrote:
 > >... the view from the ISO is that it costs money for the
 > >ISO to exist and create standards, and the cost should be absorbed by
 > >those use use the standards, particularly since they haven't got much
 > >other source of income.  However, when arrangements are made up-front
 > >to allow it, some ISO standards have been made freely available; the
 > >ISO standard for Ada is one obvious example.
 >
 >   I find this to be interesting, because it has been said in the
 > comp.std.c++ group that this is impossible to do, so that the new C++
 > standard cannot be put up on a URL. What exactly is required for this to
 > be made possible?

For Ada it was made possible by an agreement between the US DoD and ISO.
And I think the DoD had to pay for it.  So I presume that when you
pay ISO in full for the standardization process of C++ you are allowed
to put that standard online.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
---
[ comp.std.c++ is moderated.  To submit articles, try just posting with ]
[ your news-reader.  If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu    ]
[              --- Please see the FAQ before posting. ---               ]
[ FAQ: http://reality.sgi.com/austern_mti/std-c++/faq.html              ]

  I repost this article by Markus Kuhn in the "ISO standard for EBNF"
thread of the comp.std.c group.

  It is evidently possible to make sure that an ISO standard is available
for free on URL's if one knows how to do it. It seems possible to even
make later versions of a standard to be freely available, even though
earlier versions were not.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <3600E3D5.1303700D@cl.cam.ac.uk>, Markus Kuhn
<Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

Matthias Heidbrink wrote:
> Are you sure? All ISO standards which I have seen available for free
> were drafts, not the final versions.

Ada 95 (final!) is free, DSSSL is free, SPDL is free, some of the
connection-less OSI layer 3 stuff is free, all ISO standards that
are just copies of ECMA standards are free, etc. There are plenty
of ways to keep an ISO standard freely available, it just depends
on the negotiation skills of the people in the committee.

Some ways of doing it is:

- Develop and finalize the standard outside ISO in an organization
  that does not sell its documents. ECMA and IETF are two good examples.
  Then submit the standard to ISO just for fast-track balloting.

- Make clear that the standards development was sponsored significantly
  buy a government such as the US which is not allowed to produce
  copyrightable material, or let the editor of the standard be an
  employee of such a government. That is how Ada 95 was kept free
  (the Ada language revision was mostly done by a team at
  Intermetrics with US government fundung, and with some ISO WG
  input and balloting). Same for some of the newer SGML-related
  standards like DSSSL which are available online.

Markus

--
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/>

---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Hans Aberg   * Anti-spam: Remove "REMOVE." from email address.
               * Email: Hans Aberg <haberg@REMOVE.member.ams.org>
               * Home Page: <http://www.matematik.su.se/~haberg/>
               * AMS member listing: <http://www.ams.org/cml/>
---
[ comp.std.c++ is moderated.  To submit articles, try just posting with ]
[ your news-reader.  If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu    ]
[              --- Please see the FAQ before posting. ---               ]
[ FAQ: http://reality.sgi.com/austern_mti/std-c++/faq.html              ]

In article <MPG.1068819fcb88deb7989d6d@news.rmi.net>, jcoffin@taeus.com
(Jerry Coffin) wrote:
>... the view from the ISO is that it costs money for the
>ISO to exist and create standards, and the cost should be absorbed by
>those use use the standards, particularly since they haven't got much
>other source of income.  However, when arrangements are made up-front
>to allow it, some ISO standards have been made freely available; the
>ISO standard for Ada is one obvious example.

  I find this to be interesting, because it has been said in the
comp.std.c++ group that this is impossible to do, so that the new C++
standard cannot be put up on a URL. What exactly is required for this to
be made possible?

  Hans Aberg   * Anti-spam: Remove "REMOVE." from email address.
               * Email: Hans Aberg <haberg@REMOVE.member.ams.org>
               * Home Page: <http://www.matematik.su.se/~haberg/>
               * AMS member listing: <http://www.ams.org/cml/>



[ comp.std.c++ is moderated.  To submit articles, try just posting with ]
[ your news-reader.  If that fails, use mailto:std-c++@ncar.ucar.edu    ]
[              --- Please see the FAQ before posting. ---               ]
[ FAQ: http://reality.sgi.com/austern_mti/std-c++/faq.html              ]