In article qb2@steel.interlog.com, herbs@interlog.com (Herb Sutter) writes:
>Where can I find the standard committee(s)'s meeting schedule with dates and
>locations?  Specifically, when/where is the next meeting, and will the
>received public comments be discussed at that meeting?

The next meeting is now: July 10-14, in Monterey, California.

The following metting is Nov 6-10, in Tokyo, Japan.

You can get a copy of the schedule by joining the committee, or by
requesting one from ANSI. The schedule, meeting host, and general
location are set 18 to 24 months in advance, with the meeting
details sent to the committee members a few months in advance of
each meeting.

The comments received (through the formal comment process) as of July 7
will be considered at the meeting this week. The public comment period
closes at the end of July. Comments not dealt with at this meeting, and
comments received between now and the close of the period, will be
considered at the Tokyo meeting. The strange overlap is due to
conflicting timing requirements of ISO and ANSI, which have changed
several times since the committee set its document schedule, and to the
meeting schedule of the committee: every March, July, and November.

I'm off to the meeting today, and can supply more information when
I return.

---
Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@eng.sun.com

In article <3tp7eq$ig8@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, clamage@Eng.Sun.COM says...
>
>In article qb2@steel.interlog.com, herbs@interlog.com (Herb Sutter) writes:
>>Where can I find the standard committee(s)'s meeting schedule with dates
and
>>locations?  Specifically, when/where is the next meeting, and will the
>>received public comments be discussed at that meeting?
>
>The next meeting is now: July 10-14, in Monterey, California.
>
>The following metting is Nov 6-10, in Tokyo, Japan.
>
>You can get a copy of the schedule by joining the committee, or by
>requesting one from ANSI. The schedule, meeting host, and general

@@@@@@@
Note...it costs $$$s to join the committee...
 ..."squared $$$s" to participate...
  ...and "cubic $$$s" to have an impact...
@@@@@@@

>location are set 18 to 24 months in advance, with the meeting
>details sent to the committee members a few months in advance of
>each meeting.
>
>The comments received (through the formal comment process) as of July 7

@@@@@@@

Comments generated on the Internet and via e-mail are not considered
"official". Evidently, the "formal" ANSI "process" requires comments
to be mailed.

 I wonder if the Internet would have made it if all formal
 Internet correspondence had to be mailed?

BTW, in fairness to the ANSI members, some have claimed that they do
not all have access to the Internet. Therefore, it might be unfair to
use the Internet as the official mechanism for communication.

Economics evidently are not a factor in determining whether people have
access. Obviously, if people have the funds to fly to Monterey, California
and Tokyo, Japan then they can probably afford Internet access.

With some of the ANSI committee members, it is probably a case of not
being familiar with the technology. In the case of P.J. Plauger, he notes
in his recent editorial in the C/C++ User's Journal that he is just
learning HTML and is trying to get a home page on the net. It was not
long ago that he was also telling his readers that he was just getting up
to speed on C++. It must be difficult for some of the committee members to
keep up with the politics of the committee as well as the technical
challenges required to produce a viable standard.

It is interesting that many of the C experts have evolved to C++ with
no prior OO experience. I am not sure why more OO experts are not involved
in the C++ standards work. It is unclear whether they are not interested
or whether the previous C experts have been selected as qualified to
handle this new paradigm, and OO experts "need not apply".

In the end, we will have to judge based on the quality of the standard,
the reusability of the class libraries and the compatibility of the
various industry tools. We may end up with a situation where the only
people that promote the standard are the small group of people that
developed the standard. Users will have to judge the merits of these
promotions based on other alternatives that may have been designed by
experts in OO.

In general, we have to note that many of the people that give their time
and energy to the ISO and ANSI processes may not be the leading edge
experts in the field. They may just be the people that have played these
roles for years, even though technology has passed them by. It is not
clear to me whether they will produce the "best" standard, but they will
produce *A* standard because they have done it before and their companies
pay them to do this.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this situation. We just have to
keep it in mind when we evaluate what tools we want to use to develop
long-term software strategies. As an example, if we are going to make
automobiles, we may not find that an expert in making horse drawn
carriages can provide more than common sense advice, like use 4 wheels
and a sturdy suspension.

@@@@@@@

>will be considered at the meeting this week. The public comment period
>closes at the end of July. Comments not dealt with at this meeting, and
>comments received between now and the close of the period, will be
>considered at the Tokyo meeting. The strange overlap is due to
>conflicting timing requirements of ISO and ANSI, which have changed
>several times since the committee set its document schedule, and to the
>meeting schedule of the committee: every March, July, and November.
>
>I'm off to the meeting today, and can supply more information when
>I return.
>
>---
>Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@eng.sun.com
>
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Good luck at the meeting. As noted in the past, Sun Microsystems is
hosting this meeting. Monterey, California is an excellent location
because it is close to Sun and is "easy" for participants to reach...
 ..if they have the financial resources...
BTW, the meeting is being held at the Marriott, but it was not made
clear if there is more than one Mariott in Monterey, California...

I have never seen an address posted here or in the trade publications...
also, the agenda for the previous meeting was posted "after" the
meeting...as far as I know, the agenda for this week's meeting has not
been posted here...

Hopefully, the people of the Internet can get a daily update of the
events from the meeting. It would be nice if there was an I-Phone feed
from the meeting. With such a feed, people could "observe" the event
with little impact on the participants. Maybe a recording of the meeting
could be loaded on a server and people could listen via I-Phone at
their leisure. (see http://www.vocaltec.com)

Sun uses satellite broadcasts for other high-technology conferences.
There has not been any mention of this capability for this meeting.
In a way, Sun is between a rock and a hard place because Sun's new
Java programming language (http://java.sun.com) will give C++ a run
for its money. It is also unclear how the Objective-C based OpenStep
will fit into the long-term Sun strategy.

As the ANSI and ISO events unfold, it will be important to have a
good understanding of what the various affiliations are for the
various participants. As a suggestion, people may want to list their
citizenship and employer domicile as shown below.

In some cases, people may be citizens of one country but may represent
another country. This should probably be noted under "ISO Country".
Evidently, countries (or companies) can hire consultants to represent
them because they may not have the expertise in their small country.
Evidently, countries join ISO and the U.S. is *one* country. Companies
and individuals join ANSI and the ANSI input becomes the U.S. input
to the ISO.

It has never been clear how small a country could be to qualify for
an ISO membership. It seems odd that votes are not based on population
but that seems to be the way the process works. In the end, it seems
like less then a dozen people do most of the work in these activities.
It is not clear what the other two to three hundred members do other
than provide credibility for the activity.

--
Jim Fleming
Naperville, IL 60563
Citizen: United States
Employer Domicile: United States
ANSI Committee Membership: None
ISO Committee Membership: None
ISO Country: United States (by default...see Citizen...)