In article: 11355 of comp.std.c++, Jim Fleming burbles:

> In article <D89Fu9.Gx8@cs.dal.ca>, kelley@Skye.Phys.Ocean.Dal.Ca says...

> >Jim Fleming (jim.fleming@bytes.com) wrote:

> > > If the document was loaded with graphics I might be able to go along
> > > with the methods used by the ANSI committee.

> >Could you post a document outlining C+@ please?  Thanks.

> More information on C+@ will be made available once the direction of the
> ISO/ANSI C++ process is clear. Notices of that information being
> availablewill be made in comp.object (and possibly comp.lang.misc).

In article gb7@News1.mcs.com, jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) writes:
> In article <3ohvjf$s3o@news1.halcyon.com>, gvr@coho.halcyon.com says...

>>[ ... assert( draft_format == X ) ... ]

> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> [ because (draft_format == X) everybody is wrong and Jim alone is right]
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Well Jim, you've finally convinced me.  In case I have not quite learnt
my lesson, could you please be so kind as to expound on the following
list of facts exactly why they make you right and the rest of us wrong,
wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

1.  The sky is blue.
2.  Poeple who think the world is wrong and they are right are boring.
3.  Poeple who are forever pointing out the negative are cowardly.
4.  Alot of people fantisise about strangling Jim Fleming with their bare hands.

Thanks in advance,
---
                      ,')
-__ /\\                /|
  ||  \\   _           ||
 /||__||  < \, '\ /\\  ||        pde@zoo.bt.co.uk
 \||__||  /-||  || ||  ||
  ||  |, (( ||  || ||  ||               "Close this book at once,
_-||-_/   \/\\   \\/   |/   it's full of lies!"
  ||                   (_ _  The Book of Bokannon
                         -

In article <3olg03$asi@News1.mcs.com> jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) writes:

   It is also a shame that people are posting questions which could clearly
   be answered with a 1 second "grep" (search) on the document. Has anyone
   tried searching (grep-ing) the Postscript version?

Now if you knew anything about PDF then you would also know that it
can be searched, but I guess your knowledge stretches to about as far
as the @ symbol

In article <3olqnu$cl5@info-server.bbn.com> Jim Robinson <robinson@bbn.com> writes:
   jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) wrote:
   >
   > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
   >
   > The last time I looked or read the periodic notice sent out by a couple
   > of the "moderators" of *this* newsgroup...the purpose of this group is
   > to discuss The ISO/ANSI Standard for C++...not C+@...
   >


   So why are you constantly making noise about it?

Precisely, by the same token c.l.c++ is about c++. Keep c+@ out of here
Start a newsgroup or something

In article <dkdean.799534524@pv343f.vincent.iastate.edu>, <dkdean@iastate.edu>
writes:

>  Has anyone got this PDF version to work? I've tried to look at
> body.pdf several times with Adobe Acrobat Reader 2.0.1 on a PowerMac and
> it always says "There was an error processing a page. The document may
> be damaged {114}." It then complains about an unrecognized token and
> says the rest of the document is to complex for processing.
>
>  Just to make sure I'm downloading stuff right, is PDF a text or
> binary format? Any help would be appreciated.
>
>         Dave

Looking through the PDF files they appear to contain LZW compressed data mixed
with text.  So I'd treat them as binary when downloading them.

I have succesfully downloaded the pdf files and am able to view them
under windows 3.11.

In article <dkdean.799534524@pv343f.vincent.iastate.edu>,
dkdean@iastate.edu says...
>
>In <D7zC9x.D80@research.att.com> ark@research.att.com (Andrew Koenig)
writes:
>
>>In addition to the PostScript version, the C++ draft is now available
>>on the FTP site in Adobe PDF format.  This allows easy interactive
>>browsing through use of a program called Adobe Acrobat, which is
>>available free of charge from Adobe by anonymous FTP.
>
>        Has anyone got this PDF version to work? I've tried to look at
>body.pdf several times with Adobe Acrobat Reader 2.0.1 on a PowerMac and
>it always says "There was an error processing a page. The document may
>be damaged {114}." It then complains about an unrecognized token and
>says the rest of the document is to complex for processing.
>
>        Just to make sure I'm downloading stuff right, is PDF a text or
>binary format? Any help would be appreciated.
>
>                                                                Dave

I downloaded ".pdf" files and Adobe Acrobat Readeer as it was recomended
- it works. I used PC and Compuserve FTP. Files are binary.
   Michael Furman

PDF is a binary format, and Acrobat Viewer for Windows v2.0 works fine with
body.pdf.  Much prefereable to GhostView, IMHO, except there is no NT
version of the viewer available yet.

What happened to coversheet.pdf?  <grin>

Jim Jarrett

In article <3oalte$l1s@news1.cle.ab.com> jarrett@cle.ab.com writes:

> What happened to coversheet.pdf?  <grin>

As far as I know, no one has felt it to be worth the effort to create it.
--
    --Andrew Koenig
      ark@research.att.com

In article <dkdean.799534524@pv343f.vincent.iastate.edu>, dkdean@iastate.edu says...
:        Has anyone got this PDF version to work? I've tried to look at
: body.pdf several times with Adobe Acrobat Reader 2.0.1 on a PowerMac and
: it always says "There was an error processing a page. The document may
: be damaged {114}." It then complains about an unrecognized token and
: says the rest of the document is to complex for processing.
:
:         Just to make sure I'm downloading stuff right, is PDF a text or
: binary format? Any help would be appreciated.

They are binary files and they work with the Adobe Acrobat Reader 2.0
for Windows.

--
Trent Glascock
glascock@esd.dl.nec.com

Speaking only for myself

I was successfully able to install the Adobe Acrobat reader
under Windows 3.11; it works well.  However, I could not
successfully install Acrobat on Windows NT 3.51.  It installed
without complaint, but when I tried to run it, it could not find
Adobe Type Manager.  Reinstalling was of no help.  Suggestions?
--
/George V. Reilly   <gvr@halcyon.com>

In article <3ohvjf$s3o@news1.halcyon.com>, gvr@coho.halcyon.com says...
>
>I was successfully able to install the Adobe Acrobat reader
>under Windows 3.11; it works well.  However, I could not
>successfully install Acrobat on Windows NT 3.51.  It installed
>without complaint, but when I tried to run it, it could not find
>Adobe Type Manager.  Reinstalling was of no help.  Suggestions?
>--
>/George V. Reilly   <gvr@halcyon.com>

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Isn't it amazing that this is 1995, World War II ended 50 years ago,
and human beings are still spending time trying to convert and/or read
a simple DRAFT document because the authors of that document have not
demonstrated the professional courtesy of providing the document in
one or more widely readable formats like ASCII, (a "national" standard).

If the document was loaded with graphics I might be able to go along
with the methods used by the ANSI committee. If the ANSI committee had
previously demonstrated a willingess to be open and NOT to hide things
from the general public (like copyright issues), I would probably not
comment.

It is hard for me to believe that everyone continues to "suck up" to
the C++ developers when they clearly continue to waste people's time.

When are people going to wake up...???

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
jrf@tiger.bytes.com  /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
%Techno Cat I       /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       http:199.3.34.13 telnet: port 5555
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

Jim Fleming (jim.fleming@bytes.com) wrote:
: If the document was loaded with graphics I might be able to go along
: with the methods used by the ANSI committee.

Could you post a document outlining C+@ please?  Thanks.

--
Dan E. Kelley                   internet:                Dan.Kelley@Dal.CA
Oceanography Department         phone:                       (902)494-1694
Dalhousie University            fax:                         (902)494-2885
Halifax, NS, CANADA, B3H 4J1    WWW:  http://www.phys.ocean.dal.ca/~kelley

In article <3okdpo$gb7@News1.mcs.com>,
Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:

>Isn't it amazing that this is 1995, World War II ended 50 years ago,
>and human beings are still spending time trying to convert and/or read
>a simple DRAFT document because the authors of that document have not
>demonstrated the professional courtesy of providing the document in
>one or more widely readable formats like ASCII, (a "national" standard).

I gather you have some sort of stake in a C++ conspiracy theory. But
you surely know that a lot of technical documentation is distributed
on the net in non-ASCII form. Raw postscript is quite common, as is
TeX. The lack of an ASCII version is annoying, but hardly surprising.



--
----
Steve Lane
University of Chicago, Department of History
sgl1@midway.uchicago.edu

In <D89LBu.D7I@midway.uchicago.edu>, sgl1@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Steven Lane) writes:
>In article <3okdpo$gb7@News1.mcs.com>,
>Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>
>>Isn't it amazing that this is 1995, World War II ended 50 years ago,
>>and human beings are still spending time trying to convert and/or read
>>a simple DRAFT document because the authors of that document have not
>>demonstrated the professional courtesy of providing the document in
>>one or more widely readable formats like ASCII, (a "national" standard).
>
>I gather you have some sort of stake in a C++ conspiracy theory. But
>you surely know that a lot of technical documentation is distributed
>on the net in non-ASCII form. Raw postscript is quite common, as is
>TeX. The lack of an ASCII version is annoying, but hardly surprising.

And the rationale (to ensure uniform page numbering, thereby reducing
unneccessary noise during the public comment period) has been provided, in the
very post which announced the availability of the document.

>
>
>
>--
>----
>Steve Lane
>University of Chicago, Department of History
>sgl1@midway.uchicago.edu


Tres Seaver                   tseaver@neosoft.com
MACRO Enterprises, Inc.       Vox: (713) 827-7273
Houston, Texas, USA           Fax: (&13) 827-7278

In article <D89LBu.D7I@midway.uchicago.edu>, sgl1@kimbark.uchicago.edu
says...
>
>In article <3okdpo$gb7@News1.mcs.com>,
>Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>
>>Isn't it amazing that this is 1995, World War II ended 50 years ago,
>>and human beings are still spending time trying to convert and/or read
>>a simple DRAFT document because the authors of that document have not
>>demonstrated the professional courtesy of providing the document in
>>one or more widely readable formats like ASCII, (a "national" standard).
>
>I gather you have some sort of stake in a C++ conspiracy theory. But
>you surely know that a lot of technical documentation is distributed
>on the net in non-ASCII form. Raw postscript is quite common, as is
>TeX. The lack of an ASCII version is annoying, but hardly surprising.
>
>
>
>--
>----
>Steve Lane
>University of Chicago, Department of History
>sgl1@midway.uchicago.edu

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Thanks, at least you agree it is annoying...

Actually, I guess that we are quite "lucky" that the DRAFT standard is
even on the net. Earlier this year, some people tried to take a strict
approach to (outdated) ANSI rules which require written copies to be
"purchased".

It is a shame that people are trying to decode Poscript, are capturing
the HTML files one by one, and in general are wasting their valuable
time trying to piece together 700 electronic pages of "troff" source.

It is also a shame that people are posting questions which could clearly
be answered with a 1 second "grep" (search) on the document. Has anyone
tried searching (grep-ing) the Postscript version?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
jrf@tiger.bytes.com  /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
%Techno Cat I       /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       http:199.3.34.13 telnet: port 5555
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

gvr@coho.halcyon.com (George V. Reilly) writes:

>I was successfully able to install the Adobe Acrobat reader
>under Windows 3.11; it works well.  However, I could not
>successfully install Acrobat on Windows NT 3.51.  It installed
>without complaint, but when I tried to run it, it could not find
>Adobe Type Manager.  Reinstalling was of no help.  Suggestions?
>--
>/George V. Reilly   <gvr@halcyon.com>

It will not work under NT. You need a dos version to do
it.

Try http://www.adobe.com/  for free dos version.

Jack Cheng
CS USU

In article <D89Fu9.Gx8@cs.dal.ca>, kelley@Skye.Phys.Ocean.Dal.Ca says...
>
>Jim Fleming (jim.fleming@bytes.com) wrote:
>: If the document was loaded with graphics I might be able to go along
>: with the methods used by the ANSI committee.
>
>Could you post a document outlining C+@ please?  Thanks.
>
>--
>Dan E. Kelley                   internet:                Dan.Kelley@Dal.CA

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The last time I looked or read the periodic notice sent out by a couple
of the "moderators" of *this* newsgroup...the purpose of this group is
to discuss The ISO/ANSI Standard for C++...not C+@...

C+@ is not currently being proposed as an ISO or ANSI standard...

More information on C+@ will be made available once the direction of the
ISO/ANSI C++ process is clear. Notices of that information being available
will be made in comp.object (and possibly comp.lang.misc).

Again, this newsgroup is to discuss the ISO/ANSI C++ standard and the
process surrounding the creation of *that* standard.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
jrf@tiger.bytes.com  /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
%Techno Cat I       /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       http:199.3.34.13 telnet: port 5555
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) wrote:
>
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>
> The last time I looked or read the periodic notice sent out by a couple
> of the "moderators" of *this* newsgroup...the purpose of this group is
> to discuss The ISO/ANSI Standard for C++...not C+@...
>


So why are you constantly making noise about it?

In addition to the PostScript version, the C++ draft is now available
on the FTP site in Adobe PDF format.  This allows easy interactive
browsing through use of a program called Adobe Acrobat, which is
available free of charge from Adobe by anonymous FTP.

Right now the PDF is only on research.att.com (in the usual place,
which is /dist/c++std/WP; the README file has been updated), but
it will be mirrored on the other site(s) as soon as time zones allow
(i.e. not all the relevant people are awake right now).
--
    --Andrew Koenig
      ark@research.att.com

In <D7zC9x.D80@research.att.com> ark@research.att.com (Andrew Koenig) writes:

>In addition to the PostScript version, the C++ draft is now available
>on the FTP site in Adobe PDF format.  This allows easy interactive
>browsing through use of a program called Adobe Acrobat, which is
>available free of charge from Adobe by anonymous FTP.

 Has anyone got this PDF version to work? I've tried to look at
body.pdf several times with Adobe Acrobat Reader 2.0.1 on a PowerMac and
it always says "There was an error processing a page. The document may
be damaged {114}." It then complains about an unrecognized token and
says the rest of the document is to complex for processing.

 Just to make sure I'm downloading stuff right, is PDF a text or
binary format? Any help would be appreciated.

        Dave