In article <3mhglr$et4@ritz.cec.wustl.edu>,
John Andrew Fingerhut <sg3235@shelob.sbc.com> wrote:
>In article <3mgscf$ob6@News1.mcs.com>,
>Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>:...just remember, 50 years ago someone stood up to the Germans
>:(and Hitler)...some were chewed up...some were burned up...some
>:survived...most are dead now...but when something as awful as C++
>:is imposed on the world by a monopolistic company like AT&T...someone
>:has to stand up and "object"...when the American National Standards
>:Institute is used as a "tool" to manipulate markets...someone has to
>:stand up...
>:
>:...if you do not stand up...what is the point of living...?
>
>I'll stand up....WILL SOMEONE PLEASE MODERATE THIS GROUP AND KEEP THIS CRAP
>OUTTA HERE! Hitler == C++...Gimme a break!
>
I sympathize, but...
Just killfile the guy.  It's very effective!  Personally ( I know it's
wrong) I've been enjoying Jim Fleming.  I keep wondering how he will produce
another post that's even more out-to-lunch and full of drivel than the last.
Somehow he keeps topping himself!  Also, he clearly FEEDS off the outrage
and derision that he elicits.

Mike Maddux

Jim Fleming (jim.fleming@bytes.com) wrote:

[ Foaming at the mouth about big, bad AT&T ]

Jim is my nominee for the George Carter memorial award for comp.*.c++ (readers
of comp.sys.hp.* will know what I refer to).

Unfortunately, Jim's rantings are too tedious for me to keep him out of my
killfile. At least George's ravings are sort of entertaining in a horrifying
sort of way..
--
Shankar Unni    E-Mail: shankar@sgi.com
Silicon Graphics Inc.   Phone: +1-415-390-2072
URL: http://reality.sgi.com/employees/shankar

In Article <ncmD72A2C.Kyq@netcom.com> Nathan Myers writes:
>I have an actual paper copy of a newsletter distributed by
>Unir Corporation and ours truly.  It refers to the late Admiral
>Grace Hopper as "a real nice lady" implying it was her primary
>accomplishment.  The rest was as much of a hoot as some of the
>postings we've seen here, but it was *actually trying to sell
>something* at the same time!
>
>I think that authentic (*must* be postmarked 1994 or earlier) copies
>of Unir newsletters will be collectible as soon as its former
principal
>gets carted off by the boys in white.  (No, no, not AT&T linemen ;-)
>
>

Of course, it could already have happened: occupational therapy and all
that. Personally, I've always thought that more than one ellipsis
("...") in a sentence is a bit of a giveaway. Jim clocked a clear 15 in
the Nazi conspiracy fulmination. I must admit, I usually read Jim's
messages first, to get the bile flowing nicely.

But one question remains to be answered - why have Jim Fleming and
Bjarne Stroustrop never been seen together? :-)

Scott

"If Jim Fleming did not exist, it would have been necessary to invent
him"

Ezra Weissman <ezw@moe.shore.net> wrote:
>     TK> There *is* a place for Techno Cat I (aka Jim Fleming) in the
>     TK> Jargon file (the FAQ referred to above.)
>
> I propose Mr. Fleming is not a real person. Just can't be. He, C+@,
> Unir, etc are all virtual entities. Somebody's been playing games with
> us. Or worse.

Duh!  Why did it take so long for us to notice?  AI is not dead,
it's just not as smart as we thought, and Jim Fleming is the proof.

The "Unirversity" is probably full of lonely AIs like "Jim", and
whatever corporate accidentally let this one out onto the network
is rueing the day it disclosed just how poorly its research worked
out, as its competitors are now raiding its VR space for what little
is truly worthwhile.
--
David Brownell                        db@Eng.Sun.COM.
Enterprise Distributed Objects

main(a){printf(a,34,a="main(a){printf(a,34,a=%c%s%c,34);}",34);}

In article <ezwznffytusxenb@moe.shore.net>,
Ezra Weissman <ezw@moe.shore.net> wrote:
>    TK> There *is* a place for Techno Cat I (aka Jim Fleming) in the
>    TK> Jargon file (the FAQ referred to above.)

>I propose Mr. Fleming is not a real person. Just can't be. He, C+@,
>Unir, etc are all virtual entities. Somebody's been playing games with
>us. Or worse.

I have an actual paper copy of a newsletter distributed by
Unir Corporation and ours truly.  It refers to the late Admiral
Grace Hopper as "a real nice lady" implying it was her primary
accomplishment.  The rest was as much of a hoot as some of the
postings we've seen here, but it was *actually trying to sell
something* at the same time!

I think that authentic (*must* be postmarked 1994 or earlier) copies
of Unir newsletters will be collectible as soon as its former principal
gets carted off by the boys in white.  (No, no, not AT&T linemen ;-)

In article <3mhuib$2cs@News1.mcs.com>,
Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>
>You are very correct, but when the developers of that language step
>across the boundary and actively destroy other people's property and
>work and then have their lawyers claim that they are inncocent academics
>and NEVER participate in any commercial activities, so therefore they
>can NEVER harm anyone...that is where the line is drawn...
>
>Furthermore, when those developers are told by their own attorneys
>NOT to engage in these sorts of activities and they not only continue
>to do it but INCREASE their efforts...that is where we draw the line...
>
>If these developers were doing as you claim and playing by the normal
>rules, their efforts would be sailing along....when they cross the
>line and damage other people's property, business relationships, etc.
>they will find themselves in the public relations problem they now have...
>

If they have done what you suggest, then sue them.  If you've got such a
good case, you'll likely win.

Either way, comparisons between such business transactions, ethical or
otherwise (and I don't make any judgements since I don't have any information)
and Bosnia or the Holocaust death camps are odious and reflect badly upon you.
I am much less inclined to accept your side of the story given that you engage
in such obvious hyperbole.

rajat

In article <3mgt2m$ob6@News1.mcs.com>,
   jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) wrote:
>Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
>%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
>Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563

  Mr. Fleming,

  You have not responded to my earlier warnings about Unir Corp.  Since
Unir Corp. was dissolved by your state government several months ago
(according to them, for failing to file returns and pay fees), your
continuing to use the name "Unir Corp." in your .sig appears to be illegal
under the Business Code Act applicable in your jurisdiction.

  If you have reregistered Unir Corp. in another jurisdiction, this is yet
another chance for you to say so.  If you still won't respond and I
continue to see you using that name apparently illegally in your .sig over
the next few days, I will be forced in good conscience to bring it to your
Secretary of State's office's attention, since I've seen people respond to
you with honest inquiries about Unir Corp. without realising that company
does not exist.  Other netters might be less patient and may already have
contacted your Secretary of State's office.

  I use words like "appears" and "apparently" because I want to give you
the benefit of the doubt in case I don't have all the proper information.
In particular, I have so far avoided using the word "fraud".  The text of
my original research follows:




  According to the Illinois Secretary of State, Corporate Division, Unir
Corp.'s "licence was revoked 11/1/94."  According to the County Clerk for
Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, Unir Corp.'s "dissolution" was effective
"12/94" (ref. document #94-237612).  In that document, the reason cited by
the clerk's office for the dissolution was:  "Failed to file annual report
or pay annual franchise fee."  On Friday, April 7, 1995, the Secretary of
State's office commented regarding Unir Corp.'s prior owner using Unir
Corp.'s name in current business:  "If he is, he's in violation of the
Business Code Act."

  According to the County Clerk for Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, Unir
Technology Inc. was chartered in 9/93 (ref. document #93-203098).  The
senior officers registered for the corporation were:  Agent (James R.
Fleming); President (James R. Fleming); and Secretary (Virginia Cooney).
The address given was 2130 Nachtman, Wheaton IL 60187.  I have not been
able to discover the existence of more than just these two employees, so
Unir does not appear to be a real software house or a reliable compiler or
language vendor.

  Complaints about Illinois companies' business practices should be lodged
with the Secretary of State's office and the Better Business Bureau.  (See
contact information below.)


  Sources:

  The Illinois Secretary of State, Corporate Division, can be reached in
Chicago at voice (312) 793-3380.

  The County Clerk for Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, can be reached
voice at (708) 682-7000.

  Copies of Unir Corp.'s and Unir Technology Inc.'s articles of
incorporation can be ordered for $5 from a government office in
Springfield IL, which can be reached voice at (217) 782-6875.

  The Naperville IL Chamber of Commerce can be reached voice at (708)
355-4141.  They claim Unir is not registered, nor have they heard of Unir.

  The Northern Illinois Better Business Bureau provides information about
any past complaints about Illinois companies and how they were handled,
and can be reached voice at (312) 346-3313 between 10am and 2:30pm local
time.  They charge $3 or so for the information over the phone; if you
send your inquiry by mail they will send a reply the same week.



---
Herb Sutter             #include <std_disclaimer.h>
herbs@interlog.com      "Me?  Paranoid?  ... Uh, why do you ask?"

In article <3mjucj$et5@gateway.skipstone.com>, rajat@bugs.skipstone.com
says...
>
>In article <3mhuib$2cs@News1.mcs.com>,
>Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>>
>>You are very correct, but when the developers of that language step
>>across the boundary and actively destroy other people's property and
>>work and then have their lawyers claim that they are inncocent academics
>>and NEVER participate in any commercial activities, so therefore they
>>can NEVER harm anyone...that is where the line is drawn...
>>
>>Furthermore, when those developers are told by their own attorneys
>>NOT to engage in these sorts of activities and they not only continue
>>to do it but INCREASE their efforts...that is where we draw the line...
>>
>>If these developers were doing as you claim and playing by the normal
>>rules, their efforts would be sailing along....when they cross the
>>line and damage other people's property, business relationships, etc.
>>they will find themselves in the public relations problem they now have...
>>
>
>If they have done what you suggest, then sue them.  If you've got such a
>good case, you'll likely win.
>
>Either way, comparisons between such business transactions, ethical or
>otherwise (and I don't make any judgements since I don't have any
information)
>and Bosnia or the Holocaust death camps are odious and reflect badly upon
you.
>I am much less inclined to accept your side of the story given that you
engage
>in such obvious hyperbole.
>
>rajat

You clearly have never dealt with billion dollar companies. I suggest
that you read the April issue of Upside Magazine if you want to get a
better "picture" of what we are all dealing with. It is all there in
black and white.

Only the United States Federal Government will be able to really find
what is going on. If they need a starting point, I suggest that start
with page 62 of the April issue of Upside...

If you would like an important quote from that page, here goes...

 "AT&T Corp - A day after Bill Gates officially unveiled the
 Microsoft Network last November, AT&T announced its desire to
 offer its pervasive network and high connection speeds as the
 primary access vehicle for the on-line service."

If that is not enough of a starting point, then maybe you should consider
the recent Justice Department ruling allowing Ameritech to start trialing
long distance services. For those that are not familiar, Ameritech is
headquartered in "Chicago" Illinois. (Has anyone ever explained why
the name Windows '95 replaced "Chicago"?)

In article <Pine.LNX.3.91.950412011957.438C-100000@hektor.packet.net>,
lewis@packet.net says...
>
>On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, Jim Fleming wrote:
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>>
>> Will the ANSI committee be addressing any of the items pointed
>> out below?
>>
>> Can we start submitting public comments regarding C++?
>>
>> If so, where should they be submitted?
>>
>> Also, do public comments have to be submitted by the person
>> that wrote them, or can they be forwarded, as shown below?
>>
>> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>
>I don't think you wholly got my point.  This is the indended and carfuly
>worked out design of C++.  I am not going to attempt to defend them here
>(I don't think I could realy put my heart into it anyway) but the
>standardization process for C++ is at its end.  It is too late by years
>to change any of this.
>
>If this discussion goes much further we should move it to comp.lang.c++
>
>-Victor

I was under the impression that the public comment period is just about
to begin...for some people in the standards arena, this is the beginning,
not the end...

Maybe you are saying that there is no sense commenting on the C++
standard because you will be chewed up by the C++ machine and in the
end nothing will change and all of the ANSI committee members will
declare that their language and standard are perfect and the world
will move on...I can appreciate this view...

...just remember, 50 years ago someone stood up to the Germans
(and Hitler)...some were chewed up...some were burned up...some
survived...most are dead now...but when something as awful as C++
is imposed on the world by a monopolistic company like AT&T...someone
has to stand up and "object"...when the American National Standards
Institute is used as a "tool" to manipulate markets...someone has to
stand up...

...if you do not stand up...what is the point of living...?

--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       e-mail: jim.fleming@bytes.com
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

In article <3mh4oo$pho@duke.cs.duke.edu>, dsb@cs.duke.edu says...
>
>From the Holy Book of <3mgscf$ob6@News1.mcs.com>
>  as spake by jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) :
>
>>...just remember, 50 years ago someone stood up to the Germans
>>(and Hitler)... [...]
>      ^^^^^^
>
>We have invocation of Godwin's Law.  Repeat, we have invocation of
>Godwin's Law.  Death of this thread is therefore imminent.
>
>                                                -sbigham
>--
>Scott Bigham                   | The opinions expressed above are
>dsb@cs.duke.edu                | (c) 1995 Hacker Ltd. and cannot be
>http://www.cs.duke.edu/~dsb/   | copied or distributed without a
>      = PGP spoken here =      | Darn Good Reason(tm).


Are you suggesting that everyone should just forget Hitler and Germany
from 1933 to 1945?

Instead, should we say, 20 years ago someone stodd up and voiced their
concerns about the war in Vietnam...

Are you so young and so out of touch that you want to live in a dream
world, where you invoke some silly "law" to end threads and as on
Star Trek...Piccard says, "make it so"...

Have you thought about the fact that not too long ago people were
gathering in Sarajevo for the Olympic games...have you considered
that the Olympics will be held next year in Atlanta, Georgia and
that in 5 years, it *could* look like Sarajevo...

Are you really from a generation that does not know "want" or "need"...
a generation that has never had anything denied to you...???

Take a trip around the world...check out the sites...see if your
American "rights" cut anything in some remote places...then get back
to us...after you grow up...

--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       e-mail: jim.fleming@bytes.com
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

Scott Bigham (dsb@cs.duke.edu) wrote:
: From the Holy Book of <3mh6ka$6uj@News1.mcs.com>
:   as spake by jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) :

... much "Techno Catcaphony" and some sanity deleted ...

: Go and read the FAQ and be enlightened.  [And beware; at the rate you're
: going, you might just find yourself listed in it before too long... ;) ]

:       -sbigham

There *is* a place for Techno Cat I (aka Jim Fleming) in the Jargon file
(the FAQ referred to above.)

He has gone over the edge, and has cast his lot with other infamous
net.personalities; unfortunately, since the Jargon File has been
published by a *real* book publisher, I'm skeptical that many updates
will be made.

[Jim, I put you right up there with BIFF!  (look it up :-)]

--

Terry Kane

tkane01@eagle.cc.emory.edu         reliable!        (unix)

"Bugs lurk in corners and congregate at boundaries." - Bezier

In article <3mgscf$ob6@News1.mcs.com>,
Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
:...just remember, 50 years ago someone stood up to the Germans
:(and Hitler)...some were chewed up...some were burned up...some
:survived...most are dead now...but when something as awful as C++
:is imposed on the world by a monopolistic company like AT&T...someone
:has to stand up and "object"...when the American National Standards
:Institute is used as a "tool" to manipulate markets...someone has to
:stand up...
:
:...if you do not stand up...what is the point of living...?

I'll stand up....WILL SOMEONE PLEASE MODERATE THIS GROUP AND KEEP THIS CRAP
OUTTA HERE! Hitler == C++...Gimme a break!

--
Stephen Gevers
sg3235@shelob.sbc.com

In article <3mh6ka$6uj@News1.mcs.com>,
Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>
>Have you thought about the fact that not too long ago people were
>gathering in Sarajevo for the Olympic games...have you considered
>that the Olympics will be held next year in Atlanta, Georgia and
>that in 5 years, it *could* look like Sarajevo...
>

Because of C++?

I am not a great fan of C++, or object oriented programming in
general, (or maybe not of silver bullets), but isn't equating
genocide and destruction with publishing a language standard (even
if it was the worst language ever devised, which C++ isn't) a bit
excessive even as hyperbole?

Accepting or setting an ANSI language standard is not the same as
pushing anyone on anything. If you don't like the language, don't
use it.

rajat

    TK> There *is* a place for Techno Cat I (aka Jim Fleming) in the
    TK> Jargon file (the FAQ referred to above.)

I propose Mr. Fleming is not a real person. Just can't be. He, C+@,
Unir, etc are all virtual entities. Somebody's been playing games with
us. Or worse.



--

Ezra S. Weissman

jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) writes:


>Can we start submitting public comments regarding C++?

>If so, where should they be submitted?


In late April, a draft standard will be made available on a public FTP
site. To find out how you can get a copy, and how to submit comments
for consideration by the ANSI C++ Committee X3J16, send email to
 c++std-notify@research.att.com

You will be placed on a mailing list, and will be notified automatically
when the draft is available and where to get it, along with instructions
for submitting comments.

The "notify" address serves only to place you on a notification mailing
list. The contents of your email will not be read or saved.

--
Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@eng.sun.com

In article <3mgp7k$s0t@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, clamage@Eng.Sun.COM says...
>
>jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) writes:
>
>
>>Can we start submitting public comments regarding C++?
>
>>If so, where should they be submitted?
>
>
>In late April, a draft standard will be made available on a public FTP
>site. To find out how you can get a copy, and how to submit comments
>for consideration by the ANSI C++ Committee X3J16, send email to
>        c++std-notify@research.att.com
>

Why does anyone want to have their e-mail address collected by....

 "research.att.com"

AT&T has a long history of being a monopolistic company and has a long
history of manipulating the intellectual property, intellectual capital,
and software markets in the U.S. as well as the rest of the world.

The recent announcements by the Justice Department as well as proposed
legislation will help to bring a rapid end to what used to be known
as the American Telephone and Telegraph Company (the name was changed
recently to AT&T).

Wake up folks, AT&T should be sanctioned from ALL activities involving
software markets, information systems, and especially the Internet. The
standardization of a new computer language is no exception.


>You will be placed on a mailing list, and will be notified automatically
>when the draft is available and where to get it, along with instructions
>for submitting comments.
>
>The "notify" address serves only to place you on a notification mailing
>list. The contents of your email will not be read or saved.
>
>--
>Steve Clamage, stephen.clamage@eng.sun.com

I assume from your e-mail address that you are with Sun Microsystems.

Are you still living in the 80's when AT&T owned part of Sun? Do you
have any clue how AT&T has taken Novell and indirectly Sun for a ride
on that UNIX sale?

What on earth is Sun doing supporting an AT&T agenda? Just because it
is in the name of ANSI, be aware that these "national" bodies are
just "pawns" which have been manipulated for years by companies like
AT&T that used to have carte blanche at setting standards and making
sure that no one else could compete in their markets...

By 1/1/98, the phase out of AT&T should be complete...wake up folks...

--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       e-mail: jim.fleming@bytes.com
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

In article <3mgt2m$ob6@News1.mcs.com>,
Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
<yet more ranting and raving deleted>

Hey Jim,

 I thought you said that C@+ programmers had lots of free time
to go sailing and horse backing riding.  Judging from the torrent of
spew you post on USENET, it seems to me that C@+ programmers spend
most of their time emulating Jack D. Ripper from Dr. Strangelove,
e.g.: "the fluoridation conspiracy is undermining my purity of
programming essence."  Do you think you could model yourself after
Slim Picking's character instead?

 ;-)

 Doug
--
Dr. Douglas C. Schmidt    (schmidt@cs.wustl.edu)
Department of Computer Science, Washington University
St. Louis, MO 63130. Work #: (314) 935-7538; FAX #: (314) 935-7302
http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/

In article <3mhuib$2cs@News1.mcs.com>,
   jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) wrote:
>Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
>%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
>Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563

  Mr. Fleming,

  You have not responded to my earlier warnings about Unir Corp.  Since
Unir Corp. was dissolved by your state government several months ago
(according to them, for failing to file returns and pay fees), your
continuing to use the name "Unir Corp." in your .sig appears to be illegal
under the Business Code Act applicable in your jurisdiction.

  If you have reregistered Unir Corp. in another jurisdiction, this is yet
another chance for you to say so.  If you still won't respond and I
continue to see you using that name apparently illegally in your .sig over
the next few days, I will be forced in good conscience to bring it to your
Secretary of State's office's attention, since I've seen people respond to
you with honest inquiries about Unir Corp. without realising that company
does not exist.  Other netters might be less patient and may already have
contacted your Secretary of State's office.

  I use words like "appears" and "apparently" because I want to give you
the benefit of the doubt in case I don't have all the proper information.
In particular, I have so far avoided using the word "fraud".  The text of
my original research follows:




  According to the Illinois Secretary of State, Corporate Division, Unir
Corp.'s "licence was revoked 11/1/94."  According to the County Clerk for
Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, Unir Corp.'s "dissolution" was effective
"12/94" (ref. document #94-237612).  In that document, the reason cited by
the clerk's office for the dissolution was:  "Failed to file annual report
or pay annual franchise fee."  On Friday, April 7, 1995, the Secretary of
State's office commented regarding Unir Corp.'s prior owner using Unir
Corp.'s name in current business:  "If he is, he's in violation of the
Business Code Act."

  According to the County Clerk for Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, Unir
Technology Inc. was chartered in 9/93 (ref. document #93-203098).  The
senior officers registered for the corporation were:  Agent (James R.
Fleming); President (James R. Fleming); and Secretary (Virginia Cooney).
The address given was 2130 Nachtman, Wheaton IL 60187.  I have not been
able to discover the existence of more than just these two employees, so
Unir does not appear to be a real software house or a reliable compiler or
language vendor.

  Complaints about Illinois companies' business practices should be lodged
with the Secretary of State's office and the Better Business Bureau.  (See
contact information below.)


  Sources:

  The Illinois Secretary of State, Corporate Division, can be reached in
Chicago at voice (312) 793-3380.

  The County Clerk for Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, can be reached
voice at (708) 682-7000.

  Copies of Unir Corp.'s and Unir Technology Inc.'s articles of
incorporation can be ordered for $5 from a government office in
Springfield IL, which can be reached voice at (217) 782-6875.

  The Naperville IL Chamber of Commerce can be reached voice at (708)
355-4141.  They claim Unir is not registered, nor have they heard of Unir.

  The Northern Illinois Better Business Bureau provides information about
any past complaints about Illinois companies and how they were handled,
and can be reached voice at (312) 346-3313 between 10am and 2:30pm local
time.  They charge $3 or so for the information over the phone; if you
send your inquiry by mail they will send a reply the same week.


---
Herb Sutter             #include <std_disclaimer.h>
herbs@interlog.com      "Me?  Paranoid?  ... Uh, why do you ask?"

|> Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
|> : ...                 .but when something as awful as C++
|> :is imposed on the world by a monopolistic company like AT&T...someone
|> :has to stand up and "object"...when the American National Standards
|> :Institute is used as a "tool" to manipulate markets...someone has to
|> :stand up...

|> :...if you do not stand up...what is the point of living...?

jaf3@ritz.cec.wustl.edu (John Andrew Fingerhut) writes:
|> I'll stand up....WILL SOMEONE PLEASE MODERATE THIS GROUP AND KEEP THIS CRAP
|> OUTTA HERE! Hitler == C++...Gimme a break!

Oh, calm down.  This problem can be solved with a kill file, unless
you somehow feel harmed by other people reading JF's postings.  Me,
I'm always entertained by other people's conspiracy theories.

Furthermore, if you delete the hyperbole about H****r and N***s, there is
a reasonable point brought up -- who is doing the standardizing, and on
whose behalf?  (If you think this is an inappropriate question, I'd love
to know why.)

David Chase (speaking for myself)

In article <3mjfo3$766@wcap.centerline.com>, chase@centerline.com says...
>
>|> Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>|> : ...                 .but when something as awful as C++
>|> :is imposed on the world by a monopolistic company like AT&T...someone
>|> :has to stand up and "object"...when the American National Standards
>|> :Institute is used as a "tool" to manipulate markets...someone has to
>|> :stand up...
>
>|> :...if you do not stand up...what is the point of living...?
>
>jaf3@ritz.cec.wustl.edu (John Andrew Fingerhut) writes:
>|> I'll stand up....WILL SOMEONE PLEASE MODERATE THIS GROUP AND KEEP THIS
CRAP
>|> OUTTA HERE! Hitler == C++...Gimme a break!
>
>Oh, calm down.  This problem can be solved with a kill file, unless
>you somehow feel harmed by other people reading JF's postings.  Me,
>I'm always entertained by other people's conspiracy theories.
>
>Furthermore, if you delete the hyperbole about H****r and N***s, there is
>a reasonable point brought up -- who is doing the standardizing, and on
>whose behalf?  (If you think this is an inappropriate question, I'd love
>to know why.)
>
>David Chase (speaking for myself)

Also, since ANSI members estimate that $60,000,000 has been spent to
date developing *just* the C++ standard and since recent postings by
Taligent confirm that they are following the ANSI C++ party line to
the "T" (no pun intended)...if you add the $75,000,000 that Taligent
has on the table, plus the few bucks that smaller players like Borland
and Microsoft have at stake...you start to get a better picture of
what people have "at stake"...a little more than the $3,000 that Bjarne
Stroustrup always claims was the budget for C++...

--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       e-mail: jim.fleming@bytes.com
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

In article <3mhmo8$93o@gateway.skipstone.com>, rajat@bugs.skipstone.com
says...
>
>In article <3mh6ka$6uj@News1.mcs.com>,
>Jim Fleming <jim.fleming@bytes.com> wrote:
>>
>>Have you thought about the fact that not too long ago people were
>>gathering in Sarajevo for the Olympic games...have you considered
>>that the Olympics will be held next year in Atlanta, Georgia and
>>that in 5 years, it *could* look like Sarajevo...
>>
>
>Because of C++?
>
>I am not a great fan of C++, or object oriented programming in
>general, (or maybe not of silver bullets), but isn't equating
>genocide and destruction with publishing a language standard (even
>if it was the worst language ever devised, which C++ isn't) a bit
>excessive even as hyperbole?
>
>Accepting or setting an ANSI language standard is not the same as
>pushing anyone on anything. If you don't like the language, don't
>use it.
>
>rajat

You are very correct, but when the developers of that language step
across the boundary and actively destroy other people's property and
work and then have their lawyers claim that they are inncocent academics
and NEVER participate in any commercial activities, so therefore they
can NEVER harm anyone...that is where the line is drawn...

Furthermore, when those developers are told by their own attorneys
NOT to engage in these sorts of activities and they not only continue
to do it but INCREASE their efforts...that is where we draw the line...

If these developers were doing as you claim and playing by the normal
rules, their efforts would be sailing along....when they cross the
line and damage other people's property, business relationships, etc.
they will find themselves in the public relations problem they now have...

Two years ago it took several AT&T attorneys to talk sense into the
C++ developers...now maybe the Attorney General of the United States
will be called upon to not only talk sense to the C++ developers but
also Mr. Robert Allen of AT&T and Mr. Dan Stanzione of AT&T Bell Labs...


--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       e-mail: jim.fleming@bytes.com
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

In article <3mh6ka$6uj@News1.mcs.com>,
   jim.fleming@bytes.com (Jim Fleming) wrote:
>Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
>%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
>Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563

  Mr. Fleming,

  You have not responded to my earlier warnings about Unir Corp.  Since
Unir Corp. was dissolved by your state government several months ago
(according to them, for failing to file returns and pay fees), your
continuing to use the name "Unir Corp." in your .sig appears to be illegal
under the Business Code Act applicable in your jurisdiction.

  If you have reregistered Unir Corp. in another jurisdiction, this is yet
another chance for you to say so.  If you still won't respond and I
continue to see you using that name apparently illegally in your .sig over
the next few days, I will be forced in good conscience to bring it to your
Secretary of State's office's attention, since I've seen people respond to
you with honest inquiries about Unir Corp. without realising that company
does not exist.  Other netters might be less patient and may already have
contacted your Secretary of State's office.

  I use words like "appears" and "apparently" because I want to give you
the benefit of the doubt in case I don't have all the proper information.
In particular, I have so far avoided using the word "fraud".  The text of
my original research follows:




  According to the Illinois Secretary of State, Corporate Division, Unir
Corp.'s "licence was revoked 11/1/94."  According to the County Clerk for
Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, Unir Corp.'s "dissolution" was effective
"12/94" (ref. document #94-237612).  In that document, the reason cited by
the clerk's office for the dissolution was:  "Failed to file annual report
or pay annual franchise fee."  On Friday, April 7, 1995, the Secretary of
State's office commented regarding Unir Corp.'s prior owner using Unir
Corp.'s name in current business:  "If he is, he's in violation of the
Business Code Act."

  According to the County Clerk for Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, Unir
Technology Inc. was chartered in 9/93 (ref. document #93-203098).  The
senior officers registered for the corporation were:  Agent (James R.
Fleming); President (James R. Fleming); and Secretary (Virginia Cooney).
The address given was 2130 Nachtman, Wheaton IL 60187.  I have not been
able to discover the existence of more than just these two employees, so
Unir does not appear to be a real software house or a reliable compiler or
language vendor.

  Complaints about Illinois companies' business practices should be lodged
with the Secretary of State's office and the Better Business Bureau.  (See
contact information below.)


  Sources:

  The Illinois Secretary of State, Corporate Division, can be reached in
Chicago at voice (312) 793-3380.

  The County Clerk for Naperville IL, Recorder's Office, can be reached
voice at (708) 682-7000.

  Copies of Unir Corp.'s and Unir Technology Inc.'s articles of
incorporation can be ordered for $5 from a government office in
Springfield IL, which can be reached voice at (217) 782-6875.

  The Naperville IL Chamber of Commerce can be reached voice at (708)
355-4141.  They claim Unir is not registered, nor have they heard of Unir.

  The Northern Illinois Better Business Bureau provides information about
any past complaints about Illinois companies and how they were handled,
and can be reached voice at (312) 346-3313 between 10am and 2:30pm local
time.  They charge $3 or so for the information over the phone; if you
send your inquiry by mail they will send a reply the same week.



---
Herb Sutter             #include <std_disclaimer.h>
herbs@interlog.com      "Me?  Paranoid?  ... Uh, why do you ask?"

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Will the ANSI committee be addressing any of the items pointed
out below?

Can we start submitting public comments regarding C++?

If so, where should they be submitted?

Also, do public comments have to be submitted by the person
that wrote them, or can they be forwarded, as shown below?

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


In article <Pine.LNX.3.91.950411234343.97B-100000@hektor.packet.net>,
lewis@packet.net says...
>
>On 12 Apr 1995, Jim Fleming wrote:
>> Since the developers of C++ claim to be able to support OO, and
>> since Smalltalk was one of the early OO languages, this seems like
>> a desirable translator.
>Although ST and C++ are both OOPLs such a direct conversion would
>be inadvisable.  C++ is a very different (many would say crippled)
>instance of an OOPL.
>
>C++ uses static (comple time) typing whereas ST is dynamicaly (run time)
>typed.  C++ looses alot of its efficiency advantages if it is used as a
>dynamicly typed laguage (althought this is possible).
>
>In C++ inheritance does not work for "code reuse."  In C++ what you realy
>get from inheritance is interface complience.
>
>In C++ you can only override member functions, not member data.
>
>Because of these and many other basic differeces in these languages (even
>though they both still OOPLs) any conversion from ST to C++ must be a
>conversion of implementation phylosophy and not just lines of code: a
>somewhat more complex and much less deterministic process than COBOL to
>C.
>
>Besides translated code is notoriously difficult to maintian.
>
>IMHO.
>
>-Victor
>+======================================================================+
>|                        lewis@sar.usf.edu                             |
>|                  http://www.sar.usf.edu/~lewis                       |
>+======================================================================+
>|    Any spelling errors in the above are due to a known bug in my     |
>|    wetware.  Please route all spelling related flames or spelling    |
>|                     corrections to /dev/null.                        |
>|                       Fixed in VictorIIIr2.                          |
>|                (PGP Public key supplied on request)                  |
>+======================================================================+
>

--
Jim Fleming            /|\      Unir Corporation       Unir Technology, Inc.
%Techno Cat I        /  | \     One Naperville Plaza   184 Shuman Blvd. #100
Penn's Landing      /   |  \    Naperville, IL 60563   Naperville, IL 60563
East End, Tortola  |____|___\   1-708-505-5801         1-800-222-UNIR(8647)
British Virgin Islands__|______ 1-708-305-3277 (FAX)   1-708-305-0600
                 \__/-------\__/       e-mail: jim.fleming@bytes.com
Smooth Sailing on Cruising C+@amarans  ftp: 199.3.34.12 <-----stargate----+
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____to the end of the OuterNet_|

On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, Jim Fleming wrote:
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>
> Will the ANSI committee be addressing any of the items pointed
> out below?
>
> Can we start submitting public comments regarding C++?
>
> If so, where should they be submitted?
>
> Also, do public comments have to be submitted by the person
> that wrote them, or can they be forwarded, as shown below?
>
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I don't think you wholly got my point.  This is the indended and carfuly
worked out design of C++.  I am not going to attempt to defend them here
(I don't think I could realy put my heart into it anyway) but the
standardization process for C++ is at its end.  It is too late by years
to change any of this.

If this discussion goes much further we should move it to comp.lang.c++

-Victor

+======================================================================+
|                        lewis@sar.usf.edu                             |
|                  http://www.sar.usf.edu/~lewis                       |
+======================================================================+
|    Any spelling errors in the above are due to a known bug in my     |
|    wetware.  Please route all spelling related flames or spelling    |
|                     corrections to /dev/null.                        |
|                       Fixed in VictorIIIr2.                          |
|   (PGP Public key supplied on request)                  |
+======================================================================+

Victor Lewis (lewis@packet.net) wrote:
: On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, Jim Fleming wrote:
: > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
: >
: > Will the ANSI committee be addressing any of the items pointed
: > out below?
: >
: > Can we start submitting public comments regarding C++?
: >
: > If so, where should they be submitted?
: >
: > Also, do public comments have to be submitted by the person
: > that wrote them, or can they be forwarded, as shown below?
: >
: > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

: I don't think you wholly got my point.  This is the indended and carfuly
: worked out design of C++.  I am not going to attempt to defend them here
: (I don't think I could realy put my heart into it anyway) but the
: standardization process for C++ is at its end.  It is too late by years
: to change any of this.

: If this discussion goes much further we should move it to comp.lang.c++

Please tell me, what is the purpose of this newsgroup?