In article <1990Sep6.194543.7685@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:
>howell@bert.llnl.gov (Louis Howell) writes:
>>xanthian@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:
>
>...But what has made FORTRAN so valuable to the (hard) engineering
>profession is exactly that the "dusty decks" still run.  I doubt
>that the originators of FORTRAN envisioned _at_that_time_ a set
>of applications software that would outlast the century being
>written with the first compilers, but so it has proved...

Now you've done it!  I feel that insatiable sense of curiousity
creeping up on me again!

Please forgive me.  I know this doesn't really belong in comp.std.c++,
but...

Has anybody other than me ever wondered: What's the oldest line of
code in existance (in source form) that is still in production use?
(For the sake of argument, let's define `production use' as regular
use with a frequency of no less that one time each year.)

Anybody got any clues to this Software Archeological mystery?  Perhaps
I should start a serious expedition.  I can see it now. Dr. Leaky, Jean
Sammett, and I, out there wandering the open savanas and (White?) plains,
occasionally descending deep gorges... descending back over countless
zillions of milliseconds... in search of the One True `missing link' of
the software world... the oldest living specimen of an original line of
code.

As any historian will tell you, we can't know where we are going if we
don't know where we have been.  How can we know how long the code we
write today may last if we are not even sure how long code has lasted
up until now?

 Do we build a house forever?

Seriously, if anybody knows of very ancient lines of (unmodified and
unmaintained) code that are still in production use, please send me
some E-mail about it.  After a couple of weeks, I'll post a follow-up
to comp.compilers describing/announcing the oldest reported line.

>... Unlike the middle '50's,
>today we have a plethora of highly experienced compiler writers
>to guide our projects...

My legendary modesty prevents me from accepting this compliment,
but thanks anyway. :-) :-)

>As Ron noted, C "allows" arbitrary amounts of padding between
>fields in a structure...

Actually, Roland McGrath made that (perfectly correct) observation.

>... but "nobody" does anything but the sensible
>single or double word alignment padding.

I was responsible for that comment though.

>Peace?

Yes.  Now if we can just get the Big and Little Endians to crack their
eggs from the same end, all we'll have left to do is to teach the Arabs
not to covet thy neighbor's shipping ports, gold, crude, ...

--

// Ron Guilmette  -  C++ Entomologist
// Internet: rfg@ncd.com      uucp: ...uunet!lupine!rfg
// Motto:  If it sticks, force it.  If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.

This started in comp.std.c++, I'm starting the cross-post to a.f.c:

In article <1479@lupine.NCD.COM>, rfg@NCD.COM (Ron Guilmette) writes:

|> [A bunch of stuff about ancient programs still in use.]

|> Seriously, if anybody knows of very ancient lines of (unmodified and
|> unmaintained) code that are still in production use, please send me
|> some E-mail about it.  After a couple of weeks, I'll post a follow-up
|> to comp.compilers describing/announcing the oldest reported line.

This thread was covered in detail in alt.folklore.computers back in
July.  I saved most of the discussion, but won't post it here due to
length.  The main contenders were various numerics programs dating back
to Fortran II, some of which I have used, and the theorem prover in the
Lisp 1.5 programmers manual (c. 1960).  As far as the languages are
concerned, most of Lisp 1.5 is still legal Common Lisp, and a couple
of functions that are not in Common Lisp can easily be defined by the user.
Except for a few machine-dependent commands, almost all of Fortran II
is still legal Fortran 77.  Fortran II is essentially Fortran I with
the addition of "modern" looking functions and subroutines, so though
some Fortran I code is probably still legal Fortran 77, I seriously
doubt if it is still being used.  Of course, some Fortran I code could
have been incorporated unchanged into a Fortran II subroutine, and that
could still be in use...

This thread really belongs in a.f.c, not comp.compilers.  Please bear
this in mind, Ron, when you post your winners.

--
Louis Howell

  "A few sums!" retorted Martens, with a trace of his old spirit.  "A major
navigational change, like the one needed to break us away from the comet
and put us on an orbit to Earth, involves about a hundred thousand separate
calculations.  Even the computer needs several minutes for the job."