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Often, A > B is equivalent to B < A, but it does require operator> to be
defined. Same for != being equivalent to !(A == B).
Would it be handy to be able to say = default for operator!=, operator> and
others and have the compiler auto-generate them in terms of operator== and
operator<?
A bit like Boost Operators:
http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_53_0/libs/utility/operators.htm#smpl_oprs

Being able to default operator== and have the compiler generate a
member-wise comparison sounds nice too.

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<div>Often, A &gt; B is equivalent to B &lt; A, but it does require operato=
r&gt; to be defined. Same for !=3D being equivalent to !(A =3D=3D B).</div>=
<div>Would it be handy to be able to say =3D default for operator!=3D, oper=
ator&gt; and others and have the compiler auto-generate them in terms of op=
erator=3D=3D and operator&lt;?</div><div>A bit like Boost Operators:&nbsp;<=
span style=3D"font-size: 13px;">http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_53_0/libs/u=
tility/operators.htm#smpl_oprs</span></div><div><br></div><div>Being able t=
o default operator=3D=3D and have the compiler generate a member-wise compa=
rison sounds nice too.</div>

<p></p>

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------=_Part_360_22869890.1363536366834--

.

2013/3/17 Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com>:
> Often, A > B is equivalent to B < A, but it does require operator> to be
> defined. Same for != being equivalent to !(A == B).
> Would it be handy to be able to say = default for operator!=, operator> and
> others and have the compiler auto-generate them in terms of operator== and
> operator<?
> A bit like Boost Operators:
> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_53_0/libs/utility/operators.htm#smpl_oprs
>
> Being able to default operator== and have the compiler generate a
> member-wise comparison sounds nice too.

Yes, defaulting of comparison functions in terms of canonical
definitions and/or in terms of existing ones seems useful. This has
been occasionally discussed and partially been incorporated in other
proposals such as (see "Alternative 1")

http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3413.html

It surely would make sense to prepare a new proposal for this. If
Lawrence, the author of related papers such as

http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2008/n2583.html

doesn't respond to this thread already, I would suggest to contact him
to make him aware of your plans.

- Daniel

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.

On 3/17/13, Daniel Kr=FCgler <daniel.kruegler@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2013/3/17 Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com>:
> > Often, A > B is equivalent to B < A, but it does require
> > operator> to be defined. Same for !=3D being equivalent to
> > !(A =3D=3D B).  Would it be handy to be able to say =3D default
> > for operator!=3D, operator> and others and have the compiler
> > auto-generate them in terms of operator=3D=3D and operator<?
> > A bit like Boost Operators:
> > http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_53_0/libs/utility/operators.htm#smpl_op=
rs
> >
> > Being able to default operator=3D=3D and have the compiler generate
> > a member-wise comparison sounds nice too.
>
> Yes, defaulting of comparison functions in terms of canonical
> definitions and/or in terms of existing ones seems useful. This
> has been occasionally discussed and partially been incorporated
> in other proposals such as (see "Alternative 1")
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3413.html
>
> It surely would make sense to prepare a new proposal for this. If
> Lawrence, the author of related papers such as
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2008/n2583.html
>
> doesn't respond to this thread already, I would suggest to contact
> him to make him aware of your plans.

The =3Ddefault mechanism was intended to handle this kind of extension.
I think a paper is the best approach.

--=20
Lawrence Crowl

--=20

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.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Lawrence Crowl <crowl@googlers.com> wrote:
> On 3/17/13, Daniel Kr=FCgler <daniel.kruegler@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2013/3/17 Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com>:
>> > Often, A > B is equivalent to B < A, but it does require
>> > operator> to be defined. Same for !=3D being equivalent to
>> > !(A =3D=3D B).  Would it be handy to be able to say =3D default
>> > for operator!=3D, operator> and others and have the compiler
>> > auto-generate them in terms of operator=3D=3D and operator<?
>> > A bit like Boost Operators:
>> > http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_53_0/libs/utility/operators.htm#smpl_o=
prs
>> >
>> > Being able to default operator=3D=3D and have the compiler generate
>> > a member-wise comparison sounds nice too.
>>
>> Yes, defaulting of comparison functions in terms of canonical
>> definitions and/or in terms of existing ones seems useful. This
>> has been occasionally discussed and partially been incorporated
>> in other proposals such as (see "Alternative 1")
>>
>> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3413.html
>>
>> It surely would make sense to prepare a new proposal for this. If
>> Lawrence, the author of related papers such as
>>
>> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2008/n2583.html
>>
>> doesn't respond to this thread already, I would suggest to contact
>> him to make him aware of your plans.
>
> The =3Ddefault mechanism was intended to handle this kind of extension.
> I think a paper is the best approach.

What's the status of N2583 and N3413?
I'm sure I've asked this before, but some kind of 'paper' tracker
would be handy.

--=20
Olaf

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.

On 18 March 2013 21:15, Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the status of N2583 and N3413?
> I'm sure I've asked this before, but some kind of 'paper' tracker
> would be handy.

See http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2012/n3488.html and
https://github.com/cplusplus/EWG/

I will add post-Portland, mid-term and pre-Bristol mailing papers as
soon as possible.
Currently the EWG issues list has [tiny] issues and papers from the pre-Portland
mailing.

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.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Ville Voutilainen
<ville.voutilainen@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18 March 2013 21:15, Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What's the status of N2583 and N3413?
>> I'm sure I've asked this before, but some kind of 'paper' tracker
>> would be handy.
>
> See http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2012/n3488.html and
> https://github.com/cplusplus/EWG/
>
> I will add post-Portland, mid-term and pre-Bristol mailing papers as
> soon as possible.
> Currently the EWG issues list has [tiny] issues and papers from the pre-Portland
> mailing.

What about having a real issue tracker?
With an issue page for example having all updates related to a
specific idea, including all papers.


--
Olaf

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.

On 18 March 2013 22:00, Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com> wrote:
>> See http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2012/n3488.html and
>> https://github.com/cplusplus/EWG/
>> I will add post-Portland, mid-term and pre-Bristol mailing papers as
>> soon as possible.
>> Currently the EWG issues list has [tiny] issues and papers from the pre-Portland
>> mailing.
> What about having a real issue tracker?
> With an issue page for example having all updates related to a
> specific idea, including all papers.

The latter page _is_ that issue tracker, it will link later paper
revisions to the previous ones
and likely vice versa. If you want bugzilla or something like that, it
would require hosting
services from someone, so I'm personally not going into that direction
in the foreseeable
future.

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.

On 3/18/13, Olaf van der Spek <olafvdspek@gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the status of N2583 and N3413?

N2583 was essentially made moot with the introduction of move
special members, see N3053 et al.

I don't know about N3413.

> I'm sure I've asked this before, but some kind of 'paper' tracker
> would be handy.

--
Lawrence Crowl

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On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:19:58 PM UTC-7, Ville Voutilainen wrote:
>
> On 18 March 2013 22:00, Olaf van der Spek <olafv...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
> wrote:
> >> See http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2012/n3488.html and
> >> https://github.com/cplusplus/EWG/
> >> I will add post-Portland, mid-term and pre-Bristol mailing papers as
> >> soon as possible.
> >> Currently the EWG issues list has [tiny] issues and papers from the
> pre-Portland
> >> mailing.
> > What about having a real issue tracker?
> > With an issue page for example having all updates related to a
> > specific idea, including all papers.
>
> The latter page _is_ that issue tracker, it will link later paper
> revisions to the previous ones
> and likely vice versa. If you want bugzilla or something like that, it
> would require hosting
> services from someone, so I'm personally not going into that direction
> in the foreseeable
> future.
>

You have a GitHub site right there. It has an issue tracker. Just add an
issue for every paper so that we can follow it. You can update the issue
when the status of the paper is updated.

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------=_Part_365_7525852.1363642573370
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<br><br>On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:19:58 PM UTC-7, Ville Voutilainen wrote=
:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 18 March 2013 22:00, Olaf =
van der Spek &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-m=
ailto=3D"5bPfml3kJZIJ">olafv...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt;&gt; See <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/=
2012/n3488.html" target=3D"_blank">http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/<wbr>WG21/=
docs/papers/2012/n3488.<wbr>html</a> and
<br>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/cplusplus/EWG/" target=3D"_blank=
">https://github.com/cplusplus/<wbr>EWG/</a>
<br>&gt;&gt; I will add post-Portland, mid-term and pre-Bristol mailing pap=
ers as
<br>&gt;&gt; soon as possible.
<br>&gt;&gt; Currently the EWG issues list has [tiny] issues and papers fro=
m the pre-Portland
<br>&gt;&gt; mailing.
<br>&gt; What about having a real issue tracker?
<br>&gt; With an issue page for example having all updates related to a
<br>&gt; specific idea, including all papers.
<br>
<br>The latter page _is_ that issue tracker, it will link later paper
<br>revisions to the previous ones
<br>and likely vice versa. If you want bugzilla or something like that, it
<br>would require hosting
<br>services from someone, so I'm personally not going into that direction
<br>in the foreseeable
<br>future.
<br></blockquote><div><br>You have a GitHub site right there. It has an iss=
ue tracker. Just add an issue for every paper so that we can follow it. You=
 can update the issue when the status of the paper is updated. <br></div>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br />
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------=_Part_365_7525852.1363642573370--

.

On 18 March 2013 23:36, Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The latter page _is_ that issue tracker, it will link later paper
>> revisions to the previous ones
>> and likely vice versa. If you want bugzilla or something like that, it
>> would require hosting
>> services from someone, so I'm personally not going into that direction
>> in the foreseeable
>> future.
> You have a GitHub site right there. It has an issue tracker. Just add an
> issue for every paper so that we can follow it. You can update the issue
> when the status of the paper is updated.

Did you bother reading the actual issue list? It has an issue for every paper.
It will update when the status of papers is updated. The issue tracker
on github, then again, is much less flexible and much less automated,
and doesn't provide as efficient a workflow nor does it support creating the
actual lists as easily as the issue list tools do. If you want, you can watch
the changes in the repository via the github watch functionality.

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On Monday, March 18, 2013 3:48:00 PM UTC-7, Ville Voutilainen wrote:
>
> On 18 March 2013 23:36, Nicol Bolas <jmck...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
> wrote:
> >> The latter page _is_ that issue tracker, it will link later paper
> >> revisions to the previous ones
> >> and likely vice versa. If you want bugzilla or something like that, it
> >> would require hosting
> >> services from someone, so I'm personally not going into that direction
> >> in the foreseeable
> >> future.
> > You have a GitHub site right there. It has an issue tracker. Just add an
> > issue for every paper so that we can follow it. You can update the issue
> > when the status of the paper is updated.
>
> Did you bother reading the actual issue list? It has an issue for every
> paper.
> It will update when the status of papers is updated. The issue tracker
> on github, then again, is much less flexible and much less automated,
> and doesn't provide as efficient a workflow nor does it support creating
> the
> actual lists as easily as the issue list tools do. If you want, you can
> watch
> the changes in the repository via the github watch functionality.
>

I don't want to watch changes in the repository. I don't want to get
spammed for each little thing you update. I don't care about every proposal
being voted on; I want to watch *specific* papers. I want to see the
evolution of *certain* proposals, not the entire set all at once.

Unless I'm missing something, the Git repo is just a bunch of HTML files.
That may be an easier workflow for you, but it's a far less useful one for
us than the ability to follow an individual proposal.

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------=_Part_32_13708218.1363648042111
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>On Monday, March 18, 2013 3:48:00 PM UTC-7, Ville Voutilainen wrote=
:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 18 March 2013 23:36, Nicol=
 Bolas &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=
=3D"-FXfW7EJpmkJ">jmck...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt;&gt; The latter page _is_ that issue tracker, it will link later pa=
per
<br>&gt;&gt; revisions to the previous ones
<br>&gt;&gt; and likely vice versa. If you want bugzilla or something like =
that, it
<br>&gt;&gt; would require hosting
<br>&gt;&gt; services from someone, so I'm personally not going into that d=
irection
<br>&gt;&gt; in the foreseeable
<br>&gt;&gt; future.
<br>&gt; You have a GitHub site right there. It has an issue tracker. Just =
add an
<br>&gt; issue for every paper so that we can follow it. You can update the=
 issue
<br>&gt; when the status of the paper is updated.
<br>
<br>Did you bother reading the actual issue list? It has an issue for every=
 paper.
<br>It will update when the status of papers is updated. The issue tracker
<br>on github, then again, is much less flexible and much less automated,
<br>and doesn't provide as efficient a workflow nor does it support creatin=
g the
<br>actual lists as easily as the issue list tools do. If you want, you can=
 watch
<br>the changes in the repository via the github watch functionality.
<br></blockquote><div><br>I don't want to watch changes in the repository. =
I don't want to get spammed for each little thing you update. I don't care =
about every proposal being voted on; I want to watch <i>specific</i> papers=
.. I want to see the evolution of <i>certain</i> proposals, not the entire s=
et all at once.<br><br>Unless I'm missing something, the Git repo is just a=
 bunch of HTML files. That may be an easier workflow for you, but it's a fa=
r less useful one for us than the ability to follow an individual proposal.=
 <br></div>

<p></p>

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&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

------=_Part_32_13708218.1363648042111--

.

On 19 March 2013 01:07, Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't want to watch changes in the repository. I don't want to get spammed
> for each little thing you update. I don't care about every proposal being

Good, then observe the usual committee mailings, where you'll see updated
versions of the issues list.

> Unless I'm missing something, the Git repo is just a bunch of HTML files.
> That may be an easier workflow for you, but it's a far less useful one for
> us than the ability to follow an individual proposal.

The individual issues are stored as separate xml files; the html files
are generated
from those. If you can watch an individual file on github, you can
follow individual
proposals.

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.

Guys, this is a volunteer effort. If you think there needs to be more
coordinated tracking for particular proposals, go maintain one or send
pull requests to the existing ones at
http://cplusplus.github.com/LWG/lwg-proposal-status.html and
https://github.com/cplusplus/EWG/. Once you have such a list, if
you're looking to update it with the current status of a particular
series of papers, try asking the authors directly. Just demanding that
someone else put together the list you want to see isn't going to
work.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2013 1:19:58 PM UTC-7, Ville Voutilainen wrote:
>>
>> On 18 March 2013 22:00, Olaf van der Spek <olafv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> See http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2012/n3488.html and
>> >> https://github.com/cplusplus/EWG/
>> >> I will add post-Portland, mid-term and pre-Bristol mailing papers as
>> >> soon as possible.
>> >> Currently the EWG issues list has [tiny] issues and papers from the
>> >> pre-Portland
>> >> mailing.
>> > What about having a real issue tracker?
>> > With an issue page for example having all updates related to a
>> > specific idea, including all papers.
>>
>> The latter page _is_ that issue tracker, it will link later paper
>> revisions to the previous ones
>> and likely vice versa. If you want bugzilla or something like that, it
>> would require hosting
>> services from someone, so I'm personally not going into that direction
>> in the foreseeable
>> future.
>
>
> You have a GitHub site right there. It has an issue tracker. Just add an
> issue for every paper so that we can follow it. You can update the issue
> when the status of the paper is updated.
>
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Op zondag 17 maart 2013 17:06:06 UTC+1 schreef Olaf van der Spek het
volgende:

> Being able to default operator== and have the compiler generate a
> member-wise comparison sounds nice too.
>

After some more thought it may not be as simple as it sounds.

Having the compiler automatically use < if > is requested but unavailable
is probably a step to far.
Having a way to generate multiple operators with a single "= default" would
be nice.
Defining other operators in terms of < is fine for strict weak ordering,
but not so fine otherwise.

Some ideas:
If no relops are defined:
If == is defaulted, != gets implicitly defaulted as well.
If < is defaulted, <=, >, >=, ==, != (others?) get implicitly defaulted too.
The default implementations would do member-wise compares, as this would
work for orderings other than non strict as well.

If some relops are defined:
If an operator is defaulted, the implementation will use the canonical
operator (== or <) and others don't get implicitly defaulted.

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Op zondag 17 maart 2013 17:06:06 UTC+1 schreef Olaf van der Spek het volgen=
de:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.=
8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Being able to defa=
ult operator=3D=3D and have the compiler generate a member-wise comparison =
sounds nice too.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>After some more =
thought it may not be as simple as it sounds.</div><div><br></div><div>Havi=
ng the compiler automatically use &lt; if &gt; is requested but unavailable=
 is probably a step to far.</div><div>Having a way to generate multiple ope=
rators with a single "=3D default" would be nice.&nbsp;</div><div>Defining =
other operators in terms of &lt; is fine for strict weak ordering, but not =
so fine otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div>Some ideas:</div><div>If no rel=
ops are defined:</div><div>If =3D=3D is defaulted, !=3D gets implicitly def=
aulted as well.</div><div>If &lt; is defaulted, &lt;=3D, &gt;, &gt;=3D, =3D=
=3D, !=3D (others?) get implicitly defaulted too.</div><div>The default imp=
lementations would do member-wise compares, as this would work for ordering=
s other than non strict as well.</div><div><br></div><div>If some relops ar=
e defined:</div><div>If an operator is defaulted, the implementation will u=
se the canonical operator (=3D=3D or &lt;) and others don't get implicitly =
defaulted.</div>

<p></p>

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