------=_Part_1_12238208.1366978087559
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Everyone.
I have a question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++
Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that
does not really propose any changes to the standard? I can see that some
papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of other
proposals. I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could support
contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than N1962<http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html>,
but as I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my idea is
really feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is any
better than just posting it here in the discussion group.

Regards,
&rzej

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=en.



------=_Part_1_12238208.1366978087559
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Everyone.<br>I have a question primarily for the people that attend the =
ISO C++ Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper =
that does not really propose any changes to the standard? I can see that so=
me papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of ot=
her proposals. I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could suppor=
t contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than <a href=
=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html">N1962</=
a>, but as I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my ide=
a is really feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is a=
ny better than just posting it here in the discussion group.<br><br>Regards=
,<br>&amp;rzej<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

------=_Part_1_12238208.1366978087559--

.

--047d7b47274890de6c04db426bfd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 26 April 2013 15:08, Andrzej Krzemie=F1ski <akrzemi1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Everyone.
> I have a question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++
> Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that
> does not really propose any changes to the standard? I can see that some
> papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of oth=
er
> proposals. I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could support
> contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than N1962<htt=
p://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html>,
> but as I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my idea =
is
> really feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is any
> better than just posting it here in the discussion group.
>
>
I would recommend just submitting the paper just like the proposal papers,
and do take into account
the previous papers, like
http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html.

--=20

---=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa=
ls/?hl=3Den.



--047d7b47274890de6c04db426bfd
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 26 April 2013 15:08, Andrzej Krzemie=C5=84ski <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akrzemi1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akrzemi1@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Everyone.<br>I have a =
question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++ Committee meeting=
s. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that does not really prop=
ose any changes to the standard? I can see that some papers only show some =
benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of other proposals. I would li=
ke to share my thoughts about how C++ could support contract-programming fe=
atures in a somewhat different form than <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC=
1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html" target=3D"_blank">N1962</a>, but a=
s I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my idea is real=
ly feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is any better=
 than just posting it here in the discussion group.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would recommend just submitting the =
paper just like the proposal papers, and do take into account<br>the previo=
us papers, like <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2=
006/n1962.html">http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.h=
tml</a>. <br>
</div></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--047d7b47274890de6c04db426bfd--

.

------=_Part_54_8234933.1366978768974
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



W dniu pi=B1tek, 26 kwietnia 2013 14:10:25 UTC+2 u=BFytkownik Ville Voutila=
inen=20
napisa=B3:
>
>
>
>
> On 26 April 2013 15:08, Andrzej Krzemie=F1ski <akrz...@gmail.com<javascri=
pt:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone.
>> I have a question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++=20
>> Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that=
=20
>> does not really propose any changes to the standard? I can see that some=
=20
>> papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of ot=
her=20
>> proposals. I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could support=
=20
>> contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than N1962<ht=
tp://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html>,=20
>> but as I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my idea=
 is=20
>> really feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is any=
=20
>> better than just posting it here in the discussion group.
>>
>>
> I would recommend just submitting the paper just like the proposal papers=
,=20
> and do take into account
> the previous papers, like=20
> http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html.=20
>
>
Does such paper require a champion?=20

--=20

---=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa=
ls/?hl=3Den.



------=_Part_54_8234933.1366978768974
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br>W dniu pi=B1tek, 26 kwietnia 2013 14:10:25 UTC+2 u=BFytkownik Ville=
 Voutilainen napisa=B3:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0=
;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 26 April 2013 15:0=
8, Andrzej Krzemie=F1ski <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" targ=
et=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"9-i13n-NRvMJ">akrz...@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Everyone.<br>I have a =
question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++ Committee meeting=
s. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that does not really prop=
ose any changes to the standard? I can see that some papers only show some =
benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of other proposals. I would li=
ke to share my thoughts about how C++ could support contract-programming fe=
atures in a somewhat different form than <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC=
1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html" target=3D"_blank">N1962</a>, but a=
s I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my idea is real=
ly feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is any better=
 than just posting it here in the discussion group.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would recommend just submitting the =
paper just like the proposal papers, and do take into account<br>the previo=
us papers, like <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2=
006/n1962.html" target=3D"_blank">http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/<wbr>WG21/d=
ocs/papers/2006/n1962.<wbr>html</a>. <br>
</div></div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Does such paper require a=
 champion? <br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

------=_Part_54_8234933.1366978768974--

.

--e89a8ff2511ce7edb304db42953d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 26 April 2013 15:19, Andrzej Krzemie=C5=84ski <akrzemi1@gmail.com> wrote=
:

> Does such paper require a champion?
>
>
>
>
It's always a good idea to have a champion for any paper. The committee has
a tendency
to avoid looking at papers that aren't presented by someone familiar with
the papers.

--=20

---=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa=
ls/?hl=3Den.



--e89a8ff2511ce7edb304db42953d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 26 April 2013 15:19, Andrzej Krzemie=F1ski <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:akrzemi1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akrzemi1@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Does such paper require a champion? <br><div=
 class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

<br><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s always a good=
 idea to have a champion for any paper. The committee has a tendency<br>to =
avoid looking at papers that aren&#39;t presented by someone familiar with =
the papers. <br>
</div></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--e89a8ff2511ce7edb304db42953d--

.

--047d7b3a9894fb721004db42b517
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Andrzej Krzemie=F1ski <akrzemi1@gmail.com>=
wrote:

>
>
> W dniu pi=B1tek, 26 kwietnia 2013 14:10:25 UTC+2 u=BFytkownik Ville
> Voutilainen napisa=B3:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26 April 2013 15:08, Andrzej Krzemie=F1ski <akrz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Everyone.
>>> I have a question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++
>>> Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that
>>> does not really propose any changes to the standard? I can see that som=
e
>>> papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of o=
ther
>>> proposals. I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could suppor=
t
>>> contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than N1962<h=
ttp://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html>,
>>> but as I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my ide=
a is
>>> really feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is an=
y
>>> better than just posting it here in the discussion group.
>>>
>>>
>> I would recommend just submitting the paper just like the proposal
>> papers, and do take into account
>> the previous papers, like http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/**
>> WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.**html<http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/do=
cs/papers/2006/n1962.html>.
>>
>>
>>
> Does such paper require a champion?
>
> --
>


In my opinion, the more EWG (seasoned regulars) champions you align before
the paper is presented, the greater your chance of success.
Perhaps you could reach out to Lawrence Crowl, in addition to other
seasoned regulars who follow this list (*nudge Ville* ;).

I look forward to your paper!

Thanks!

--=20

---=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa=
ls/?hl=3Den.



--047d7b3a9894fb721004db42b517
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Andrzej Krzemie=F1ski <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akrzemi1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akrzemi1@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><br>W dniu pi=B1tek, =
26 kwietnia 2013 14:10:25 UTC+2 u=BFytkownik Ville Voutilainen napisa=B3:<d=
iv class=3D"im">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div=
><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 26 April 2013 15:08, Andrzej Krzemie=
=F1ski <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>akrz...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Everyone.<br>I have a =
question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++ Committee meeting=
s. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that does not really prop=
ose any changes to the standard? I can see that some papers only show some =
benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of other proposals. I would li=
ke to share my thoughts about how C++ could support contract-programming fe=
atures in a somewhat different form than <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC=
1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html" target=3D"_blank">N1962</a>, but a=
s I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my idea is real=
ly feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is any better=
 than just posting it here in the discussion group.<br>

<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would recommend just submitting the =
paper just like the proposal papers, and do take into account<br>the previo=
us papers, like <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2=
006/n1962.html" target=3D"_blank">http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/<u></u>WG21=
/docs/papers/2006/n1962.<u></u>html</a>. <br>

</div></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br>Does such paper req=
uire a champion? <br></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

-- <br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br>In my opinion, the more EWG (seasoned regulars) champions you align bef=
ore the paper is presented, the greater your chance of success.<br>Perhaps =
you could reach out to Lawrence Crowl, in addition to other seasoned regula=
rs who follow this list (*nudge Ville* ;).<br>
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I look forward to your paper!<br><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Thanks!<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--047d7b3a9894fb721004db42b517--

.

--089e013a0a1ed8378104db42c12d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 26 April 2013 15:31, Faisal Vali <faisalv@gmail.com> wrote:

> In my opinion, the more EWG (seasoned regulars) champions you align before
> the paper is presented, the greater your chance of success.
> Perhaps you could reach out to Lawrence Crowl, in addition to other
> seasoned regulars who follow this list (*nudge Ville* ;).
>
> I look forward to your paper!
>
>
Clever nudge, but I expect to have rather full hands in Chicago with the NB
comments and other such things.
Talking to Lawrence would be most wise, he's the author of the previous
pre/post-condition proposal
and can give tons of insights into what the likely outcome will be, and
what the history of the proposal
is. Talking to Lawrence is also insightful in general, he is a very wise
man. ;)

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=en.



--089e013a0a1ed8378104db42c12d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 April 2013 15:31, Faisal Vali <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:faisalv@gmail.com" target="_blank">faisalv@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">In my opinion, the more EWG (seasoned regulars) champions you align before the paper is presented, the greater your chance of success.<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">Perhaps you could reach out to Lawrence Crowl, in addition to other seasoned regulars who follow this list (*nudge Ville* ;).<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I look forward to your paper!<br><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Clever nudge, but I expect to have rather full hands in Chicago with the NB comments and other such things.<br>
</div><div>Talking to Lawrence would be most wise, he&#39;s the author of the previous pre/post-condition proposal<br>and can give tons of insights into what the likely outcome will be, and what the history of the proposal<br>
</div><div>is. Talking to Lawrence is also insightful in general, he is a very wise man. ;)<br></div></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href="http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=en">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=en</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--089e013a0a1ed8378104db42c12d--

.

--089e012948024416bf04db4a626d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IMO, yes, papers that just respond to other papers or provide supporting
data are very useful. Whichever group looks at the paper you're responding
to needs to know to look at your paper concurrently, but you should be able
to tell the chair of that group about the association rather than needing a
full champion. (Of course, having someone dedicated to representing your
papers never hurts.)
On Apr 26, 2013 5:08 AM, "Andrzej Krzemie=C5=84ski" <akrzemi1@gmail.com> wr=
ote:

> Hi Everyone.
> I have a question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++
> Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper that
> does not really propose any changes to the standard? I can see that some
> papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of oth=
er
> proposals. I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could support
> contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than N1962<htt=
p://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html>,
> but as I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test if my idea =
is
> really feasible. I wonder if submitting such a non-proposal paper is any
> better than just posting it here in the discussion group.
>
> Regards,
> &rzej
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
> To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
> Visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=3Den.
>
>
>

--=20

---=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa=
ls/?hl=3Den.



--089e012948024416bf04db4a626d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><p dir=3D"ltr">IMO, yes, papers that just respond to other=
 papers or provide supporting data are very useful. Whichever group looks a=
t the paper you&#39;re responding to needs to know to look at your paper co=
ncurrently, but you should be able to tell the chair of that group about th=
e association rather than needing a full champion. (Of course, having someo=
ne dedicated to representing your papers never hurts.)</p>


<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Apr 26, 2013 5:08 AM, &quot;Andrzej Krzemie=
=F1ski&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akrzemi1@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" cl=
ass=3D"cremed">akrzemi1@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


Hi Everyone.<br>I have a question primarily for the people that attend the =
ISO C++ Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper =
that does not really propose any changes to the standard? I can see that so=
me papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons, or are a critique of ot=
her proposals. I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could suppor=
t contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than <a href=
=3D"http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html" target=
=3D"_blank" class=3D"cremed">N1962</a>, but as I am not a compiler writer, =
I will not be able to test if my idea is really feasible. I wonder if submi=
tting such a non-proposal paper is any better than just posting it here in =
the discussion group.<br>


<br>Regards,<br>&amp;rzej<br>

<p></p>

-- <br>
=A0<br>
--- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:std-proposals%2Bunsubscribe@isocpp.org" target=3D=
"_blank" class=3D"cremed">std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:std-proposals@isocpp=
..org" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"cremed">std-proposals@isocpp.org</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"cremed">http://groups.go=
ogle.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
=A0<br>
=A0<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--089e012948024416bf04db4a626d--

.

--20cf30684a7127940804db4a74ee
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 26 April 2013 16:40, Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@google.com> wrote:

> IMO, yes, papers that just respond to other papers or provide supporting
> data are very useful. Whichever group looks at the paper you're responding
> to needs to know to look at your paper concurrently, but you should be able
> to tell the chair of that group about the association rather than needing a
> full champion. (Of course, having someone dedicated to representing your
> papers never hurts.)
>

I think the paper also needs a purpose.  What do you expect the committee
to do with it, even if you just want the committee to offer guidance.
--
 Nevin ":-)" Liber  <mailto:nevin@eviloverlord.com>  (847) 691-1404

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=en.



--20cf30684a7127940804db4a74ee
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 26 April 2013 16:40, Jeffrey Yasskin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jyasskin@google.com" target=3D"_blank">jyasskin@google.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr"><p dir=3D"ltr">IMO, yes, papers that just respond to other=
 papers or provide supporting data are very useful. Whichever group looks a=
t the paper you&#39;re responding to needs to know to look at your paper co=
ncurrently, but you should be able to tell the chair of that group about th=
e association rather than needing a full champion. (Of course, having someo=
ne dedicated to representing your papers never hurts.)<br>

</p></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all">I think the paper also needs=
 a purpose.=A0 What do you expect the committee to do with it, even if you =
just want the committee to offer guidance.<br>-- <br>=A0Nevin &quot;:-)&quo=
t; Liber=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:nevin@eviloverlord.com" target=3D"=
_blank">nevin@eviloverlord.com</a>&gt;=A0 (847) 691-1404

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--20cf30684a7127940804db4a74ee--

.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Nevin Liber <nevin@eviloverlord.com> wrote:
> On 26 April 2013 16:40, Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@google.com> wrote:
>>
>> IMO, yes, papers that just respond to other papers or provide supporting
>> data are very useful. Whichever group looks at the paper you're responding
>> to needs to know to look at your paper concurrently, but you should be able
>> to tell the chair of that group about the association rather than needing a
>> full champion. (Of course, having someone dedicated to representing your
>> papers never hurts.)
>
>
> I think the paper also needs a purpose.  What do you expect the committee to
> do with it, even if you just want the committee to offer guidance.

I'd expect the purpose of a paper like this to be along the lines of
"the committee's guidance for that other paper should include these
points." I agree it'll probably be helpful for the paper to mention
that explicitly.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=en.



.

--089e013a19780ec5c204db4a8be3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 27 April 2013 00:48, Jeffrey Yasskin <jyasskin@google.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Nevin Liber <nevin@eviloverlord.com>
> wrote:
> > I think the paper also needs a purpose.  What do you expect the
> committee to
> > do with it, even if you just want the committee to offer guidance.
>
> I'd expect the purpose of a paper like this to be along the lines of
> "the committee's guidance for that other paper should include these
> points." I agree it'll probably be helpful for the paper to mention
> that explicitly.
>
>
>
I have no uncertainty about the purpose of this paper - it's attempting to
gauge the
EWG's opinion on whether it's time that C++ got contract-programming
facilities,
and whether that should be pursued with further proposals.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/?hl=en.



--089e013a19780ec5c204db4a8be3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 27 April 2013 00:48, Jeffrey Yasskin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jyasskin@google.com" target=3D"_blank">jyasskin@google.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:=
44 PM, Nevin Liber &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nevin@eviloverlord.com">nevin@evil=
overlord.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

&gt; I think the paper also needs a purpose. =A0What do you expect the comm=
ittee to<br>
&gt; do with it, even if you just want the committee to offer guidance.<br>
<br>
</div>I&#39;d expect the purpose of a paper like this to be along the lines=
 of<br>
&quot;the committee&#39;s guidance for that other paper should include thes=
e<br>
points.&quot; I agree it&#39;ll probably be helpful for the paper to mentio=
n<br>
that explicitly.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br><br></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>I have no uncertainty about the purpose of this paper - i=
t&#39;s attempting to gauge the<br></div><div>EWG&#39;s opinion on whether =
it&#39;s time that C++ got contract-programming facilities,<br>
and whether that should be pursued with further proposals. <br></div></div>=
<br></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
&nbsp;<br />
--- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.<br />
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/=
std-proposals/?hl=3Den">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-pro=
posals/?hl=3Den</a>.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;<br />

--089e013a19780ec5c204db4a8be3--

.

On 4/26/13, Andrzej Krzemie=C5=84ski <akrzemi1@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a question primarily for the people that attend the ISO C++
> Committee meetings. Does it make sense to write and submit a paper
> that does not really propose any changes to the standard?  I can
> see that some papers only show some benchmarks or comparisons,
> or are a critique of other proposals.

Certainly.  N3426 is one example.

> I would like to share my thoughts about how C++ could support
> contract-programming features in a somewhat different form than
> N1962<http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2006/n1962.html>,
> but as I am not a compiler writer, I will not be able to test
> if my idea is really feasible. I wonder if submitting such a
> non-proposal paper is any better than just posting it here in
> the discussion group.

I would welcome such a paper.

Different approaches often arise because people use the language
in different ways, or value some attributes differently.  If you
can be clear on what attributes or usage patterns you think the
earlier proposal does not handle well, it will help considerably.

--=20
Lawrence Crowl

--=20

---=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposa=
ls/?hl=3Den.



.