Topic: C++14 normative references to C99 vs C11 ?
Author: Andrew Tomazos <andrewtomazos@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 21:21:04 -0700 (PDT)
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Sorry if this was discussed somewhere else previously...
In the WG21 N3690 C++14 draft it says (the same as in C++11)...
The following referenced documents are indispensible for application of=20
> this document:
>
> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999, Programming languages =97 C
> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.1:2001(E), Programming languages =97 C, Technic=
al=20
> Corrigendum 1
> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.2:2004(E), Programming languages =97 C, Technic=
al=20
> Corrigendum 2
> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.3:2007(E), Programming languages =97 C, Technic=
al=20
> Corrigendum 3
>
(FYI There is a combined WG14 commitee draft of these four documents WG14=
=20
N1256.)
These dependencies are for the C++ standard library - as the C++ standard=
=20
library refers to library entity definitions from the C standard library=20
(defined in C standard clause 7).
My question is why doesn't C++14 depend on the C11 standard? Is it the=20
intention that the two standards will be permanently forked? Should C++17=
=20
depend on a newer version of the C standard library?
(FYI The closest draft to C11 is WG14 N1570 I think, and the latest the=20
WG14 papers are into the N1700s)
I am not intimately familiar with the delta from the C99 standard library=
=20
to the C11 standard library, so I am not sure how much of a big deal this=
=20
is, or what the implications would be, if any.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Sorry if this was discussed somewhere else previously...<b=
r><br>In the WG21 N3690 C++14 draft it says (the same as in C++11)...<br><b=
r><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rg=
b(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">The following r=
eferenced documents are indispensible for application of this document:<br>=
<br>=97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999, Programming languages =97 C<br>=97 ISO/IEC 9899:=
1999/Cor.1:2001(E), Programming languages =97 C, Technical Corrigendum 1<br=
>=97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.2:2004(E), Programming languages =97 C, Technica=
l Corrigendum 2<br>=97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.3:2007(E), Programming languag=
es =97 C, Technical Corrigendum 3<br></blockquote><br>(FYI There is a combi=
ned WG14 commitee draft of these four documents WG14 N1256.)<br><br>These d=
ependencies are for the C++ standard library - as the C++ standard library =
refers to library entity definitions from the C standard library (defined i=
n C standard clause 7).<br><br>My question is why doesn't C++14 depend on t=
he C11 standard? Is it the intention that the two standards will be p=
ermanently forked? Should C++17 depend on a newer version of the C st=
andard library?<br><br>(FYI The closest draft to C11 is WG14 N1570 I think,=
and the latest the WG14 papers are into the N1700s)<br><br>I am not intima=
tely familiar with the delta from the C99 standard library to the C11 stand=
ard library, so I am not sure how much of a big deal this is, or what the i=
mplications would be, if any.<br><br></div>
<p></p>
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Author: "Billy O'Neal" <billy.oneal@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 01:06:20 -0700
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Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D
Billy O'Neal
https://github.com/BillyONeal/ <https://bitbucket.org/BillyONeal/>
http://stackoverflow.com/users/82320/billy-oneal
Malware Response Instructor - BleepingComputer.com
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Andrew Tomazos <andrewtomazos@gmail.com>wr=
ote:
> Sorry if this was discussed somewhere else previously...
>
> In the WG21 N3690 C++14 draft it says (the same as in C++11)...
>
> The following referenced documents are indispensible for application of
>> this document:
>>
>> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999, Programming languages =97 C
>> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.1:2001(E), Programming languages =97 C, Techni=
cal
>> Corrigendum 1
>> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.2:2004(E), Programming languages =97 C, Techni=
cal
>> Corrigendum 2
>> =97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.3:2007(E), Programming languages =97 C, Techni=
cal
>> Corrigendum 3
>>
>
> (FYI There is a combined WG14 commitee draft of these four documents WG14
> N1256.)
>
> These dependencies are for the C++ standard library - as the C++ standard
> library refers to library entity definitions from the C standard library
> (defined in C standard clause 7).
>
> My question is why doesn't C++14 depend on the C11 standard? Is it the
> intention that the two standards will be permanently forked? Should C++1=
7
> depend on a newer version of the C standard library?
>
> (FYI The closest draft to C11 is WG14 N1570 I think, and the latest the
> WG14 papers are into the N1700s)
>
> I am not intimately familiar with the delta from the C99 standard library
> to the C11 standard library, so I am not sure how much of a big deal this
> is, or what the implications would be, if any.
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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> Visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/.
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D</div></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Billy O'=
;Neal</div><div><a href=3D"https://bitbucket.org/BillyONeal/" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://github.com/BillyONeal/</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://stackoverflow.com/users/82320/billy-oneal" target=3D=
"_blank">http://stackoverflow.com/users/82320/billy-oneal</a></div><div>Mal=
ware Response Instructor - BleepingComputer.com</div></div></div>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Andrew =
Tomazos <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:andrewtomazos@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">andrewtomazos@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Sorry if this was discussed somewhere else previously...<b=
r><br>In the WG21 N3690 C++14 draft it says (the same as in C++11)...<br><b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;paddi=
ng-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border=
-left-style:solid">
The following referenced documents are indispensible for application of thi=
s document:<br><br>=97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999, Programming languages =97 C<br>=
=97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.1:2001(E), Programming languages =97 C, Technical=
Corrigendum 1<br>
=97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.2:2004(E), Programming languages =97 C, Technical=
Corrigendum 2<br>=97 ISO/IEC 9899:1999/Cor.3:2007(E), Programming language=
s =97 C, Technical Corrigendum 3<br></blockquote><br>(FYI There is a combin=
ed WG14 commitee draft of these four documents WG14 N1256.)<br>
<br>These dependencies are for the C++ standard library - as the C++ standa=
rd library refers to library entity definitions from the C standard library=
(defined in C standard clause 7).<br><br>My question is why doesn't C+=
+14 depend on the C11 standard?=A0 Is it the intention that the two standar=
ds will be permanently forked?=A0 Should C++17 depend on a newer version of=
the C standard library?<br>
<br>(FYI The closest draft to C11 is WG14 N1570 I think, and the latest the=
WG14 papers are into the N1700s)<br><br>I am not intimately familiar with =
the delta from the C99 standard library to the C11 standard library, so I a=
m not sure how much of a big deal this is, or what the implications would b=
e, if any.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<p></p>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
<p></p>
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Author: Ville Voutilainen <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 12:24:45 +0300
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On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <billy.oneal@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D
>
>
>
C++14 already did, as response to the NB comment GB 9.
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<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:billy.oneal@gmail.com" target="_blank">billy.oneal@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>C++14 already did, as response to the NB comment GB 9.<br></div></div><br></div></div>
<p></p>
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Author: "=?utf-8?B?YmlsbHkub25lYWxAZ21haWwuY29t?=" <billy.oneal@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 07:17:28 -0700
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Then yay X2!
Sent from a touchscreen. Please excuse the brevity and tpyos.
----- Reply message -----
From: "Ville Voutilainen" <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com>
To: <std-proposals@isocpp.org>
Subject: [std-proposals] C++14 normative references to C99 vs C11 ?
Date: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 2:24 AM
On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <billy.oneal@gmail.com> wrote:
Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D
C++14 already did, as response to the NB comment GB 9.
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<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif;"><div>Then =
yay X2!</div><div><br></div><div>Sent from a touchscreen. Please excuse the=
brevity and tpyos.</div><br><div id=3D"htc_header">----- Reply message ---=
--<br>From: "Ville Voutilainen" <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com&g=
t;<br>To: <std-proposals@isocpp.org><br>Subject: [std-proposals] C++1=
4 normative references to C99 vs C11 ?<br>Date: Sat, Oct 26, 2013 2:24 AM</=
div></div><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:billy.oneal@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bil=
ly.oneal@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yay! We could kill std=
::gets() :D</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><f=
ont color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>C++14 already did,=
as response to the NB comment GB 9.<br></div></div><br></div></div>
<p></p>
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Author: Daryle Walker <darylew@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 17:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
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On Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:24:45 AM UTC-4, Ville Voutilainen wrote:
> On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <billy...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>
>> Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D
>>
>
> C++14 already did, as response to the NB comment GB 9.
>
Uh, how's that supposed to work if C99 (or C11) hasn't done so yet? Is getsjust ignored only when compiling in C++ mode?
Daryle W.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:24:45 AM UTC-4, Ville Vout=
ilainen wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;marg=
in-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div>On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"l_9mH1QChJkJ=
">billy...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yay! We could kill std=
::gets() :D</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>C++14 already did, =
as response to the NB comment GB 9.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>Uh, how's that supposed to work if C99 (or C11) hasn't don=
e so yet? Is <font face=3D"courier new, monospace">gets</font> just ignored=
only when compiling in C++ mode?</div><div><br></div><div>Daryle W.</div><=
div><br></div></div>
<p></p>
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Author: Ville Voutilainen <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 03:39:28 +0200
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On 27 October 2013 03:53, Daryle Walker <darylew@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:24:45 AM UTC-4, Ville Voutilainen wrote:
>
> On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <billy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D
>>>
>>
>> C++14 already did, as response to the NB comment GB 9.
>>
>
> Uh, how's that supposed to work if C99 (or C11) hasn't done so yet? Is
> gets just ignored only when compiling in C++ mode?
>
>
>
C11 removes gets, and I suppose a C++14 implementation could refuse to
accept
gets even if C still had it.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 27 October 2013 03:53, Daryle Walker <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:darylew@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">darylew@gmail.com</a>>=
</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, October 26, 20=
13 5:24:45 AM UTC-4, Ville Voutilainen wrote:<div class=3D"im"><br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a>billy...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yay! We could kill std=
::gets() :D</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>C++14 already did, =
as response to the NB comment GB 9.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Uh, how's that=
supposed to work if C99 (or C11) hasn't done so yet? Is <font face=3D"=
courier new, monospace">gets</font> just ignored only when compiling in C++=
mode?</div>
<div><br><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>C11 removes gets,=
and I suppose a C++14 implementation could refuse to accept<br></div><div>=
gets even if C still had it.=A0 <br></div></div><br></div></div>
<p></p>
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--001a11c215cce6ea8e04e9af0d90--
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Author: Marshall Clow <mclow.lists@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 20:40:15 -0700
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On Oct 26, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Daryle Walker <darylew@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:24:45 AM UTC-4, Ville Voutilainen wrote:
> On 26 October 2013 11:06, Billy O'Neal <billy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yay! We could kill std::gets() :D
>
> C++14 already did, as response to the NB comment GB 9.
>
> Uh, how's that supposed to work if C99 (or C11) hasn't done so yet? Is gets just ignored only when compiling in C++ mode?
C++11 imports ::gets into namespace std;
C++14 does not.
-- Marshall
Marshall Clow Idio Software <mailto:mclow.lists@gmail.com>
A.D. 1517: Martin Luther nails his 95 Theses to the church door and is promptly moderated down to (-1, Flamebait).
-- Yu Suzuki
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=
=3Diso-8859-1"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mo=
de: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On Oct 26, 20=
13, at 5:53 PM, Daryle Walker <<a href=3D"mailto:darylew@gmail.com">dary=
lew@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, October 26, 2013 5:2=
4:45 AM UTC-4, Ville Voutilainen wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-c=
olor: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; posi=
tion: static; z-index: auto; "><div dir=3D"ltr">On 26 October 2013 11:06, B=
illy O'Neal <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank"=
gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"l_9mH1QChJkJ">billy...@gmail.com</a>></span> w=
rote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Yay! We could kill std::get=
s() :D</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>C++14 already did, as response=
to the NB comment GB 9.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
Uh, how's that supposed to work if C99 (or C11) hasn't done so yet? Is <fon=
t face=3D"courier new, monospace">gets</font> just ignored only when compil=
ing in C++ mode?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>C++11 imports ::get=
s into namespace std;</div><div>C++14 does not.</div><div><br></div><div ap=
ple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color:=
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal; font-varia=
nt: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: norma=
l; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; wh=
ite-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-=
spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decoration=
s-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-widt=
h: 0px; font-size: medium; ">-- Marshall<br><br>Marshall Clow =
Idio Software <<a href=3D"mailto:mclow.lists@gmail.com">mailto:m=
clow.lists@gmail.com</a>><br><br>A.D. 1517: Martin Luther nails his 95 T=
heses to the church door and is promptly moderated down to (-1, Flamebait).=
<br> -- Yu Suzuki</span>
</div>
<br></body></html>
<p></p>
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.
Author: Jens Maurer <Jens.Maurer@gmx.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 16:24:05 +0100
Raw View
On 10/26/2013 06:21 AM, Andrew Tomazos wrote:
> My question is why doesn't C++14 depend on the C11 standard?
>
> I am not intimately familiar with the delta from the C99 standard
> library to the C11 standard library, so I am not sure how much of a
> big deal this is, or what the implications would be, if any.
And nobody else seems to have done exactly this work: Where are
the differences, and what are the implications from a C++ viewpoint?
It's probably too late for C++14, but I'm sure L(E)WG would look
favorably at a paper presenting this information, and proposing
an upgrade of the reference to C11.
Thanks,
Jens
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Author: Daryle Walker <darylew@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:04:30 -0800 (PST)
Raw View
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On Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:24:05 AM UTC-4, Jens Maurer wrote:
>
> On 10/26/2013 06:21 AM, Andrew Tomazos wrote:
> > My question is why doesn't C++14 depend on the C11 standard?
> >
> > I am not intimately familiar with the delta from the C99 standard
> > library to the C11 standard library, so I am not sure how much of a
> > big deal this is, or what the implications would be, if any.
>
> And nobody else seems to have done exactly this work: Where are
> the differences, and what are the implications from a C++ viewpoint?
>
Perusing the 2013 mailings list, N3631 seems to cover (some of) it.
> It's probably too late for C++14, but I'm sure L(E)WG would look
> favorably at a paper presenting this information, and proposing
> an upgrade of the reference to C11.
>
Daryle W.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:24:05 AM UTC-4, Jens Maurer=
wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.=
8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 10/26/2013 06:21 AM,=
Andrew Tomazos wrote:
<br>> My question is why doesn't C++14 depend on the C11 standard?
<br>>=20
<br>> I am not intimately familiar with the delta from the C99 standard
<br>> library to the C11 standard library, so I am not sure how much of =
a
<br>> big deal this is, or what the implications would be, if any.
<br>
<br>And nobody else seems to have done exactly this work: Where are
<br>the differences, and what are the implications from a C++ viewpoint?
<br></blockquote><div><br>Perusing the 2013 mailings list, N3631 seems to c=
over (some of) it.<br> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: =
1ex;">It's probably too late for C++14, but I'm sure L(E)WG would look
<br>favorably at a paper presenting this information, and proposing
<br>an upgrade of the reference to C11.
<br></blockquote><div><br>Daryle W.<br> <br></div></div>
<p></p>
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