Topic: Allowing one more case of unions to be


Author: David Krauss <potswa@mac.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 00:11:17 +0800
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> On 2015=E2=80=9305=E2=80=9320, at 11:25 PM, Michael Reilly <omnipotentent=
ity@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> I can absolutely write up a paper before Friday.

Just FYI, if you miss the Friday deadline you can simply submit to the next=
 deadline. There are several mailings between meetings. The next meeting is=
 in October.

The paper is not only expected to describe the proposed change, but also to=
 argue why it=E2=80=99s important enough to take action. There are successf=
ul papers that do not contain motivation, but they are usually products of =
committee directives from previous meetings, and often inscrutable to outsi=
ders.

The committee does not really consider papers that are not presented at a m=
eeting. Unless you plan on personally going to a meeting (which can be nice=
, the next one is in Hawaii), you need to find a =E2=80=9Cchampion=E2=80=9D=
 or advocate who will represent you. Holding off on submission could give y=
ou a chance to act on any guidance they might have. Failing to find an advo=
cate and not presenting at the next meeting will cause the paper to get sta=
le. It could be more difficult to find a presenter for a subsequent meeting=
.. And you can=E2=80=99t just resubmit the same paper.

Writing and submitting your first paper in two days might do no harm. I=E2=
=80=99m still a novice, and much of the above is only repetition of advice =
from my own advocate. But to me, the risks and stress seem to outweigh any =
benefits.

--=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s=
pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><di=
v><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 2015=E2=80=9305=
=E2=80=9320, at 11:25 PM, Michael Reilly &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:omnipotenten=
tity@gmail.com" class=3D"">omnipotententity@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><=
br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span style=3D"font-=
family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: norma=
l; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphan=
s: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-s=
pace: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0=
px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I can absolutely w=
rite up a paper before Friday.</span></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></di=
v><div>Just FYI, if you miss the Friday deadline you can simply submit to t=
he next deadline. There are several mailings between meetings. The next mee=
ting is in October.</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">The paper is not on=
ly expected to describe the proposed change, but also to argue why it=E2=80=
=99s important enough to take action. There are successful papers that do n=
ot contain motivation, but they are usually products of committee directive=
s from previous meetings, and often inscrutable to outsiders.</div><div cla=
ss=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The committee does not really =
consider papers that are not presented at a meeting. Unless you plan on per=
sonally going to a meeting (which can be nice, the next one is in Hawaii), =
you need to find a =E2=80=9Cchampion=E2=80=9D or advocate who will represen=
t you. Holding off on submission could give you a chance to act on any guid=
ance they might have. Failing to find an advocate and not presenting at the=
 next meeting will cause the paper to get stale. It could be more difficult=
 to find a presenter for a subsequent meeting. And you can=E2=80=99t just r=
esubmit the same paper.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div clas=
s=3D"">Writing and submitting your first paper in two days might do no harm=
.. I=E2=80=99m still a novice, and much of the above is only repetition of a=
dvice from my own advocate. But to me, the risks and stress seem to outweig=
h any benefits.</div></body></html>

<p></p>

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.


Author: Michael Reilly <omnipotententity@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 09:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
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On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 12:11:34 PM UTC-4, David Krauss wrote:
>
>
> On 2015=E2=80=9305=E2=80=9320, at 11:25 PM, Michael Reilly <omnipote...@g=
mail.com=20
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
> I can absolutely write up a paper before Friday.
>
>
> Just FYI, if you miss the Friday deadline you can simply submit to the=20
> next deadline. There are several mailings between meetings. The next=20
> meeting is in October.
>
> The paper is not only expected to describe the proposed change, but also=
=20
> to argue why it=E2=80=99s important enough to take action. There are succ=
essful=20
> papers that do not contain motivation, but they are usually products of=
=20
> committee directives from previous meetings, and often inscrutable to=20
> outsiders.
>
> The committee does not really consider papers that are not presented at a=
=20
> meeting. Unless you plan on personally going to a meeting (which can be=
=20
> nice, the next one is in Hawaii), you need to find a =E2=80=9Cchampion=E2=
=80=9D or advocate=20
> who will represent you. Holding off on submission could give you a chance=
=20
> to act on any guidance they might have. Failing to find an advocate and n=
ot=20
> presenting at the next meeting will cause the paper to get stale. It coul=
d=20
> be more difficult to find a presenter for a subsequent meeting. And you=
=20
> can=E2=80=99t just resubmit the same paper.
>
> Writing and submitting your first paper in two days might do no harm. I=
=E2=80=99m=20
> still a novice, and much of the above is only repetition of advice from m=
y=20
> own advocate. But to me, the risks and stress seem to outweigh any benefi=
ts.
>

While I am financially capable of attending the meeting in October, I have=
=20
a pretty major scheduling conflict.  Would I need to attend the entire=20
week?  If so, what would be the best and least irritating way to go about=
=20
pestering people who are already attending to advocate for me?

--=20

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ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wednesday, May 20, 2015 at 12:11:34 PM UTC-4, David Kra=
uss wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left:=
 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div style=3D"word-w=
rap:break-word"><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 2015=E2=80=9305=
=E2=80=9320, at 11:25 PM, Michael Reilly &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=
=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"DO9P8fdD0z8J" rel=3D"nofollow" onmouse=
down=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'jav=
ascript:';return true;">omnipote...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div>=
<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-=
variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;=
text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor=
d-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I can absolutely write u=
p a paper before Friday.</span></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Just FYI, =
if you miss the Friday deadline you can simply submit to the next deadline.=
 There are several mailings between meetings. The next meeting is in Octobe=
r.</div><br><div>The paper is not only expected to describe the proposed ch=
ange, but also to argue why it=E2=80=99s important enough to take action. T=
here are successful papers that do not contain motivation, but they are usu=
ally products of committee directives from previous meetings, and often ins=
crutable to outsiders.</div><div><br></div><div>The committee does not real=
ly consider papers that are not presented at a meeting. Unless you plan on =
personally going to a meeting (which can be nice, the next one is in Hawaii=
), you need to find a =E2=80=9Cchampion=E2=80=9D or advocate who will repre=
sent you. Holding off on submission could give you a chance to act on any g=
uidance they might have. Failing to find an advocate and not presenting at =
the next meeting will cause the paper to get stale. It could be more diffic=
ult to find a presenter for a subsequent meeting. And you can=E2=80=99t jus=
t resubmit the same paper.</div><div><br></div><div>Writing and submitting =
your first paper in two days might do no harm. I=E2=80=99m still a novice, =
and much of the above is only repetition of advice from my own advocate. Bu=
t to me, the risks and stress seem to outweigh any benefits.</div></div></b=
lockquote><div><br>While I am financially capable of attending the meeting =
in October, I have a pretty major scheduling conflict.&nbsp; Would I need t=
o attend the entire week?&nbsp; If so, what would be the best and least irr=
itating way to go about pestering people who are already attending to advoc=
ate for me?<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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..org">std-proposals@isocpp.org</a>.<br />
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std-proposals/">http://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/group/std-proposals/<=
/a>.<br />

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.


Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Daniel_Kr=FCgler?= <daniel.kruegler@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 19:28:38 +0200
Raw View
2015-05-20 17:38 GMT+02:00 Michael Reilly <omnipotententity@gmail.com>:
>> I can absolutely write up a paper before Friday.  As this is my first
>> proposal, is there a specific template or format I should use?  Also to whom
>> or where should I submit?
>>
>> Michael
>
> Please forgive me, I have found https://isocpp.org/std/submit-a-proposal  I
> shall get started immediately.

That is a good starting point. But since the current descriptions on
the ISO page are a bit underspecified, here are some further
recommendations:

1) You need to decide on the addressed project. Unless your paper is
intending to address a concrete defect or you have been given
directions to address a concrete working group, there are some rules
of thumb:

a) If your paper suggests changes affecting the core language, please address

Project: Programming Language C++, Evolution Working Group

b) If your paper suggests changes affecting the standard library, please address

Project: Programming Language C++, Library Evolution Working Group

c) If your paper addresses a very concrete subgroup, take a look at

https://isocpp.org/std/the-committee#Subgroups

for the current list of sub-groups.

2) If you want to submit a paper this week, you should be aware that
the deadline is on Friday (2015-05-22) this time, you can see the next
deadline as the first news entry on this page:

http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/

In this case, please request a document number for the paper (Contact
the lwgchair address available from here:
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/lwg-active.html) in time.
Note that you cannot reuse a such allocated document number for the
next deadline should you miss it this time. The document number has
the format

Nxxxx

where xxxx stands for a four-digit number.

3) Should you have a document number and should you present draft
versions of your paper in public, please ensure that you write the
document number as

Dxxxx

Think of D standing for "draft". xxxx is the allocated four-digit
number if you have one or just plain (textual) xxxx as long as you
don't have yet such a number. Once you decide the paper is ready,
switch to the Nxxxx format. From that point on consider your paper
state as frozen and don't change it, instead submit it as soon as
possible.

If you have further questions, please contact the above mentioned
lwgchair address or contact me via my private email address.

Thanks,

- Daniel

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