Topic: Extension methods for C++
Author: Jonathan Coe <jbcoe@me.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:23:16 +0100
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Given the reception that uniform call syntax eventually received I was
wondering if there would be any interest in discussing C++ extension
methods again?
This paper
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079r0.pdf as
discussed in the Kona meeting. Would it be worth revising (with extended
examples) to discuss again in Oulu?
regards,
Jonathan
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Given the reception that uniform call syntax eventually re=
ceived I was wondering if there would be any interest in discussing C++ ext=
ension methods again?<div><br></div><div>This paper=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://=
www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079r0.pdf">http://www.op=
en-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079r0.pdf</a> as discussed in =
the Kona meeting. Would it be worth revising (with extended examples) to di=
scuss again in Oulu?</div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div><br></div>=
<div>Jonathan</div></div>
<p></p>
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.
Author: Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 10:09:44 -0700 (PDT)
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On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 6:23:18 AM UTC-4, Jonathan Coe wrote:
>
> Given the reception that uniform call syntax eventually received I was
> wondering if there would be any interest in discussing C++ extension
> methods again?
>
> This paper
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079r0.pdf as
> discussed in the Kona meeting. Would it be worth revising (with extended
> examples) to discuss again in Oulu?
>
>
Someone could probably try it again. But at this point, it almost certainly
isn't going to reach C++17.
Personally, from looking at the notes of the meeting
<http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2016/n4586.pdf> (PDF),
it seems that UCS didn't receive a poor reception so much as a *misinformed*
one. None of the issues brought up against it were anything that hadn't
already been considered and accounted for. It seems more like a number of
people who hadn't followed the proposal got scared of things that weren't
actual problems. For example, there were complaints of it breaking code,
but the proposal is very carefully designed to not break any existing code.
They had even tested the new lookup rules on live code, proving that it
didn't break anything.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 6:23:18 AM UTC-4, Jonathan Co=
e wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0=
..8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Given=
the reception that uniform call syntax eventually received I was wondering=
if there would be any interest in discussing C++ extension methods again?<=
div><br></div><div>This paper=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/=
sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079r0.pdf" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" =
onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2=
Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0079r0.pdf=
\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG3FQxC90J9tuBLnCM2F-bDw-bOAg';=
return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dht=
tp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp=
0079r0.pdf\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG3FQxC90J9tuBLnCM2F-bDw-=
bOAg';return true;">http://www.open-std.org/<wbr>jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/pa=
pers/<wbr>2015/p0079r0.pdf</a> as discussed in the Kona meeting. Would it b=
e worth revising (with extended examples) to discuss again in Oulu?</div><b=
r></div></blockquote><div><br>Someone could probably try it again. But at t=
his point, it almost certainly isn't going to reach C++17.<br><br>Perso=
nally, from looking at the <a href=3D"http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG2=
1/docs/papers/2016/n4586.pdf">notes of the meeting</a> (PDF), it seems that=
UCS didn't receive a poor reception so much as a <i>misinformed</i> on=
e. None of the issues brought up against it were anything that hadn't a=
lready been considered and accounted for. It seems more like a number of pe=
ople who hadn't followed the proposal got scared of things that weren&#=
39;t actual problems. For example, there were complaints of it breaking cod=
e, but the proposal is very carefully designed to not break any existing co=
de. They had even tested the new lookup rules on live code, proving that it=
didn't break anything.<br></div></div>
<p></p>
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.
Author: Jonathan Coe <jonathanbcoe@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 00:15:30 +0100
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> On 29 Apr 2016, at 18:09, Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>> On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 6:23:18 AM UTC-4, Jonathan Coe wrote:
>> Given the reception that uniform call syntax eventually received I was w=
ondering if there would be any interest in discussing C++ extension methods=
again?
>>=20
>> This paper http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079=
r0.pdf as discussed in the Kona meeting. Would it be worth revising (with e=
xtended examples) to discuss again in Oulu?
>=20
> Someone could probably try it again. But at this point, it almost certain=
ly isn't going to reach C++17.
>=20
Totally understood. Would a revised paper targeting C++20 be of interest to=
anyone?
> Personally, from looking at the notes of the meeting (PDF), it seems that=
UCS didn't receive a poor reception so much as a misinformed one. None of =
the issues brought up against it were anything that hadn't already been con=
sidered and accounted for. It seems more like a number of people who hadn't=
followed the proposal got scared of things that weren't actual problems. F=
or example, there were complaints of it breaking code, but the proposal is =
very carefully designed to not break any existing code. They had even teste=
d the new lookup rules on live code, proving that it didn't break anything.
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
"ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an=
email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
> To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isoc=
pp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/15ec1324-a141-4892-bf4e-1ae610b26744%40isocpp.=
org.
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br>On 2=
9 Apr 2016, at 18:09, Nicol Bolas <<a href=3D"mailto:jmckesson@gmail.com=
">jmckesson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div><div dir=3D"ltr">On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 6:23:18 AM UTC-4, Jonat=
han Coe wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-l=
eft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Given the reception that uniform call syntax eventually received I was won=
dering if there would be any interest in discussing C++ extension methods a=
gain?<div><br></div><div>This paper <a href=3D"http://www.open-std.org=
/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079r0.pdf" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F=
%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0079r0.p=
df\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG3FQxC90J9tuBLnCM2F-bDw-bOAg';re=
turn true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%=
2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0079r0=
..pdf\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNG3FQxC90J9tuBLnCM2F-bDw-bOAg';=
return true;">http://www.open-std.org/<wbr>jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/<wbr>=
2015/p0079r0.pdf</a> as discussed in the Kona meeting. Would it be worth re=
vising (with extended examples) to discuss again in Oulu?</div><br></div></=
blockquote><div><br>Someone could probably try it again. But at this point,=
it almost certainly isn't going to reach C++17.<br><br></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>Totally understood. Would a revised paper t=
argeting C++20 be of interest to anyone?</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Personally, from looking at the <a href=3D"http=
://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2016/n4586.pdf">notes of the=
meeting</a> (PDF), it seems that UCS didn't receive a poor reception so mu=
ch as a <i>misinformed</i> one. None of the issues brought up against it we=
re anything that hadn't already been considered and accounted for. It seems=
more like a number of people who hadn't followed the proposal got scared o=
f things that weren't actual problems. For example, there were complaints o=
f it breaking code, but the proposal is very carefully designed to not brea=
k any existing code. They had even tested the new lookup rules on live code=
, proving that it didn't break anything.<br></div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br>
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</div></blockquote></body></html>
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.
Author: Zhihao Yuan <zy@miator.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 19:31:20 -0500
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On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Jonathan Coe <jonathanbcoe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Totally understood. Would a revised paper targeting C++20 be of interest to
> anyone?
Keeping the pointer form `this` parameter doesn't give
method calls and and function calls a unified syntax.
As I suggested elsewhere, I expect `this` to work as a
decl-specifier
void f(this MyType&& obj, ...);
to support the unified syntax by allowing any possible
parameter declarations. But this also requires further
work on restricting the lookup/resolution rules.
--
Zhihao Yuan, ID lichray
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
___________________________________________________
4BSD -- http://blog.miator.net/
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.
Author: Tony V E <tvaneerd@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 21:02:21 -0400
Raw View
<html><head></head><body lang=3D"en-US" style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,=
255, 255); line-height: initial;"> =
<div style=3D"width: 100%; fo=
nt-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, =
255, 255);">I think the argument is that although doesn't break existing co=
de, it makes code fragile to future changes, and makes lookup rules even ha=
rder to understand. </div><div style=3D"width: 100%; font-size: initial; fo=
nt-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,=
125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Sla=
te Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initi=
al; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I don't want to debate that (it =
has been debated plenty), but that's the main argument as I understand it. =
</div> =
<div style=
=3D"width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', san=
s-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; backgrou=
nd-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br style=3D"display:initial"></div> =
=
=
<div style=3D"font-size: initial; font=
-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Sent =
from my BlackBerry portable Babbage Device</div> =
=
=
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"background-color:w=
hite;border-spacing:0px;"> <tbody><tr><td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"font-size:=
initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> =
<div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-t=
op-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; =
font-family: Tahoma, 'BB Alpha Sans', 'Slate Pro'; font-size: 10pt;"> <div=
><b>From: </b>Nicol Bolas</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Friday, April 29, 2016 1:0=
9 PM</div><div><b>To: </b>ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals</div><div><b>=
Reply To: </b>std-proposals@isocpp.org</div><div><b>Cc: </b>jbcoe@me.com</d=
iv><div><b>Subject: </b>[std-proposals] Re: Extension methods for C++</div>=
</div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none=
; border-top-color: rgb(186, 188, 209); border-top-width: 1pt; font-size: i=
nitial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div><=
br><div id=3D"_originalContent" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr">On Friday, Apri=
l 29, 2016 at 6:23:18 AM UTC-4, Jonathan Coe wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Given the reception that uniform call=
syntax eventually received I was wondering if there would be any interest =
in discussing C++ extension methods again?<div><br></div><div>This paper&nb=
sp;<a href=3D"http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0079=
r0.pdf" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http=
://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg=
21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0079r0.pdf\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dA=
FQjCNG3FQxC90J9tuBLnCM2F-bDw-bOAg';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'ht=
tp://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2F=
wg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0079r0.pdf\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3=
dAFQjCNG3FQxC90J9tuBLnCM2F-bDw-bOAg';return true;">http://www.open-std.org/=
<wbr>jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/<wbr>2015/p0079r0.pdf</a> as discussed in t=
he Kona meeting. Would it be worth revising (with extended examples) to dis=
cuss again in Oulu?</div><br></div></blockquote><div><br>Someone could prob=
ably try it again. But at this point, it almost certainly isn't going to re=
ach C++17.<br><br>Personally, from looking at the <a href=3D"http://www.ope=
n-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2016/n4586.pdf">notes of the meeting</=
a> (PDF), it seems that UCS didn't receive a poor reception so much as a <i=
>misinformed</i> one. None of the issues brought up against it were anythin=
g that hadn't already been considered and accounted for. It seems more like=
a number of people who hadn't followed the proposal got scared of things t=
hat weren't actual problems. For example, there were complaints of it break=
ing code, but the proposal is very carefully designed to not break any exis=
ting code. They had even tested the new lookup rules on live code, proving =
that it didn't break anything.<br></div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br>
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Author: Jonathan Coe <jonathanbcoe@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:27:33 +0100
Raw View
> On 30 Apr 2016, at 01:31, Zhihao Yuan <zy@miator.net> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Jonathan Coe <jonathanbcoe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Totally understood. Would a revised paper targeting C++20 be of interest to
>> anyone?
>
> Keeping the pointer form `this` parameter doesn't give
> method calls and and function calls a unified syntax.
> As I suggested elsewhere, I expect `this` to work as a
> decl-specifier
>
> void f(this MyType&& obj, ...);
>
> to support the unified syntax by allowing any possible
> parameter declarations. But this also requires further
> work on restricting the lookup/resolution rules.
>
That's true. Would this be worth discussing further in Oulu?
> --
> Zhihao Yuan, ID lichray
> The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
> ___________________________________________________
> 4BSD -- http://blog.miator.net/
>
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Author: Zhihao Yuan <zy@miator.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 02:18:40 -0500
Raw View
On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 1:27 AM, Jonathan Coe <jonathanbcoe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Totally understood. Would a revised paper targeting C++20 be of interest to
>>> anyone?
>>
>> Keeping the pointer form `this` parameter doesn't give
>> method calls and and function calls a unified syntax.
>> As I suggested elsewhere, I expect `this` to work as a
>> decl-specifier
>>
>> void f(this MyType&& obj, ...);
>>
>> to support the unified syntax by allowing any possible
>> parameter declarations. But this also requires further
>> work on restricting the lookup/resolution rules.
>>
>
> That's true. Would this be worth discussing further in Oulu?
I don't know. But after "The Great Unified Call Syntax
Email Storm", I think two things are clear:
1. Discussion does not design, discussion only polishes
ideas. Either we are still looking for ideas, or we need
to present a concrete design.
2. At this moment, a bottom-up, case by case
analysis is not enough to convince people. A top-
to-down proof looks necessary.
Translation: I would like to have a chance to
coauthor a paper, but I'm not sure whether
a month is enough for coming up with something
that doesn't fail within 5 minutes on the meeting.
--
Zhihao Yuan, ID lichray
The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
___________________________________________________
4BSD -- http://blog.miator.net/
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Author: Daniel S <daniel.steck7@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 06:35:42 -0800 (PST)
Raw View
------=_Part_900_2028256307.1488206142845
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Are there any news with regard to extension methods?
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Author: Jonathan Coe <jonathanbcoe@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:59:10 +0000
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--001a114d9d48f53a3e05498601d5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 27 February 2017 at 14:35, Daniel S <daniel.steck7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are there any news with regard to extension methods?
>
>
I did not get a sense of any interest in pursuing this further.
Jon
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> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1a721aa7-d14a-40a8-
> adc7-f90d22145d50%40isocpp.org.
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On 27 February 2017 at 14:35, Daniel S <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D=
"mailto:daniel.steck7@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">daniel.steck7@gmail.com<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Are there any news =
with regard to extension methods?<br>
<span class=3D""><br></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I did not get =
a sense of any interest in pursuing this further.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Jon</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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