Topic: Better name for std::launder() ?
Author: Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 03:24:55 +0900
Raw View
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html
(accepted for C++17)
The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
"launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and
reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,
compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted
each time it is used.
On the other hand, assuming its rare uses, usually in libraries, a long
name won't be so much problem. Thus, I think a longer and descriptive
name is more appropriate. As a bonus, it will be more usable as a search
key to find relevant articles about it.
It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(), as a strawman. The
example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:
struct X { const int n; };
X *p = new X{3};
const int a = p->n;
new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)
// because X::n is const
const int b = p->n; // undefined behavior
const int c = std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)->n; // OK
What do you think? Is it too late?
Does someone know the history of the naming?
--
k_satoda
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Author: Richard Smith <richard@metafoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:47:32 -0700
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On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>
wrote:
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html
> (accepted for C++17)
>
> The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
> "launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and
> reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
> preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,
> compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted
> each time it is used.
>
> On the other hand, assuming its rare uses, usually in libraries, a long
> name won't be so much problem. Thus, I think a longer and descriptive
> name is more appropriate. As a bonus, it will be more usable as a search
> key to find relevant articles about it.
>
> It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(), as a strawman. The
> example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:
>
> struct X { const int n; };
> X *p = new X{3};
> const int a = p->n;
> new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)
> // because X::n is const
> const int b = p->n; // undefined behavior
> const int c = std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)->n; // OK
>
>
> What do you think? Is it too late?
>
If you file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renaming
it, along with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too late for the
committee to consider a different name.
Does someone know the history of the naming?
The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a
placeholder name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly been
considered good enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed the
name and decided unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG review
also discussed the name briefly and did not propose changing it.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On W=
ed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp" target=3D"_blank">k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.j=
p</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><a href=3D"http:/=
/www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/paper=
s/2015/p0137r0.html</a><br>
(accepted for C++17)<br>
<br>
The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word<br>
"launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and=
<br>
reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer<br>
preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,<b=
r>
compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted<=
br>
each time it is used.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, assuming its rare uses, usually in libraries, a long<br>
name won't be so much problem. Thus, I think a longer and descriptive<b=
r>
name is more appropriate. As a bonus, it will be more usable as a search<br=
>
key to find relevant articles about it.<br>
<br>
It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(), as a strawman. The<br>
example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 struct X { const int n; };<br>
=C2=A0 X *p =3D new X{3};<br>
=C2=A0 const int a =3D p->n;<br>
=C2=A0 new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 // because X::n is =
const<br>
=C2=A0 const int b =3D p->n; // undefined behavior<br>
=C2=A0 const int c =3D std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)->n; // OK<b=
r>
<br>
<br>
What do you think? Is it too late?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If y=
ou file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renaming it, al=
ong with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too late for the c=
ommittee to consider a different name.</div><div><br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">
Does someone know the history of the naming?</blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v>The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a placehol=
der name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly been considered=
good enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed the name and de=
cided unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG review also discus=
sed the name briefly and did not propose changing it.</div></div></div></di=
v>
<p></p>
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--001a113fe4407bf3c5053788d10b--
.
Author: Faisal Vali <faisalv@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:41:18 -0500
Raw View
On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Richard Smith <richard@metafoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>
> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html
>> (accepted for C++17)
>>
>> The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
>> "launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and
>> reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
>> preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,
>> compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted
>> each time it is used.
>>
Not that I feel strongly about this at all, but your point is not
unreasonable - launder could be named such that it is even more
suggestive (or perhaps less ambiguous - launder has many connotations
- although all of them seem appropriate here depending on your lens).
Would you prefer something along the lines of
std::revived/resurrected/renewed_object ?
Or std::phoenix? ;)
>> On the other hand, assuming its rare uses, usually in libraries, a long
>> name won't be so much problem. Thus, I think a longer and descriptive
>> name is more appropriate. As a bonus, it will be more usable as a search
>> key to find relevant articles about it.
>>
>> It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(), as a strawman. The
>> example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:
>>
>> struct X { const int n; };
>> X *p = new X{3};
>> const int a = p->n;
>> new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)
>> // because X::n is const
>> const int b = p->n; // undefined behavior
>> const int c = std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)->n; // OK
>>
>>
>> What do you think? Is it too late?
>
>
> If you file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renaming it,
> along with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too late for the
> committee to consider a different name.
>
>> Does someone know the history of the naming?
>
>
> The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a placeholder
> name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly been considered good
> enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed the name and decided
> unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG review also discussed the
> name briefly and did not propose changing it.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
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Author: Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:35:28 -0700 (PDT)
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On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 2:25:08 PM UTC-4, Kazutoshi SATODA wrote:
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html
> (accepted for C++17)
>
> The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
> "launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and
> reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
> preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,
> compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted
> each time it is used.
>
I appreciate the fact that it's not a very a priori descriptive name. But
at the same time, it's a *funny* name. You're taking part in a memory
laundering exercise.
If I have to look at/write the kind of code that needs to employ this
technique, I'd like to get a chuckle out of it ;)
Admittedly, it's not a very good defense of the name.
--
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 2:25:08 PM UTC-4, Kazutoshi=
SATODA wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-l=
eft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><a href=3D"http:=
//www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.=
com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpa=
pers%2F2015%2Fp0137r0.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE91lqNMB=
NrD1MHIWHe0Rkwukgt1w';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://=
www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%=
2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0137r0.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQ=
jCNE91lqNMBNrD1MHIWHe0Rkwukgt1w';return true;">http://www.open-std.org/=
jtc1/<wbr>sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/<wbr>p0137r0.html</a>
<br>(accepted for C++17)
<br>
<br>The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
<br>"launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime,=
and
<br>reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
<br>preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Her=
e,
<br>compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wan=
ted
<br>each time it is used.<br></blockquote><div><br>I appreciate the fact th=
at it's not a very a priori descriptive name. But at the same time, it&=
#39;s a <i>funny</i> name. You're taking part in a memory laundering ex=
ercise.<br><br>If I have to look at/write the kind of code that needs to em=
ploy this technique, I'd like to get a chuckle out of it ;)<br><br>Admi=
ttedly, it's not a very good defense of the name.</div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br />
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%40isocpp.org</a>.<br />
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.
Author: Tony V E <tvaneerd@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 08:53:20 -0400
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<html><head></head><body lang=3D"en-US" style=3D"background-color: rgb(255,=
255, 255); line-height: initial;"> =
<div style=3D"width: 100%; fo=
nt-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, =
255, 255);">std::trust_me_i_know_what_im_doing()</div><div style=3D"width: =
100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: r=
gb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div> =
=
<div style=3D"width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Ca=
libri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-a=
lign: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br style=3D"display:=
initial"></div> =
=
<div style=3D"f=
ont-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-seri=
f; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255,=
255, 255);">Sent from my BlackBerry portable Babb=
age Device</div> =
=
<table width=3D"100%" styl=
e=3D"background-color:white;border-spacing:0px;"> <tbody><tr><td colspan=3D=
"2" style=3D"font-size: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb=
(255, 255, 255);"> <div style=3D"border-style: so=
lid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt;=
padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, 'BB Alpha Sans', 'Slate Pro'; f=
ont-size: 10pt;"> <div><b>From: </b>Nicol Bolas</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Wed=
nesday, July 13, 2016 5:35 PM</div><div><b>To: </b>ISO C++ Standard - Futur=
e Proposals</div><div><b>Reply To: </b>std-proposals@isocpp.org</div><div><=
b>Cc: </b>richard@metafoo.co.uk</div><div><b>Subject: </b>[std-proposals] R=
e: Better name for std::launder() ?</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><d=
iv style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(186, 188, =
209); border-top-width: 1pt; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; backg=
round-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div><br><div id=3D"_originalContent" st=
yle=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 2:25:08 PM UTC-4, =
Kazutoshi SATODA wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0=
;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><a href=
=3D"http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.go=
ogle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs=
%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0137r0.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE91=
lqNMBNrD1MHIWHe0Rkwukgt1w';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www=
..google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fd=
ocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0137r0.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCN=
E91lqNMBNrD1MHIWHe0Rkwukgt1w';return true;">http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/<w=
br>sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/<wbr>p0137r0.html</a>
<br>(accepted for C++17)
<br>
<br>The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
<br>"launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and
<br>reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
<br>preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,
<br>compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted
<br>each time it is used.<br></blockquote><div><br>I appreciate the fact th=
at it's not a very a priori descriptive name. But at the same time, it's a =
<i>funny</i> name. You're taking part in a memory laundering exercise.<br><=
br>If I have to look at/write the kind of code that needs to employ this te=
chnique, I'd like to get a chuckle out of it ;)<br><br>Admittedly, it's not=
a very good defense of the name.</div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br>
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l.com</a>.<br />
.
Author: Ville Voutilainen <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:01:44 +0300
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On 14 July 2016 at 15:53, Tony V E <tvaneerd@gmail.com> wrote:
> std::trust_me_i_know_what_im_doing()
>
>
>
It seems to me that the only reasonable alternative would be std::kwyjibo.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On 14 July 2016 at 15:53, Tony V E <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tvaneerd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tvaneerd@gmail.com</a>></span>=
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255);line-height:initial" lang=3D"en-US"> =
<div style=3D=
"width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-=
serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:r=
gb(255,255,255)">std::trust_me_i_know_what_im_doing()</div><div style=3D"wi=
dth:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-ser=
if,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(=
255,255,255)"><br><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It seems=
to me that the only reasonable alternative would be std::kwyjibo. <br></di=
v></div><br></div></div>
<p></p>
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.
Author: Faisalv <faisalv@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 08:20:32 -0500
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> On Jul 14, 2016, at 07:53, Tony V E <tvaneerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> std::trust_me_i_know_what_im_doing()
>
>
Er shouldn't that be:
std::sorry_about_last_few_times_but_trust_me_i_know_what_im_doing_this_time()
> Sent from my BlackBerry portable Babbage Device
> From: Nicol Bolas
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:35 PM
> To: ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals
> Reply To: std-proposals@isocpp.org
> Cc: richard@metafoo.co.uk
> Subject: [std-proposals] Re: Better name for std::launder() ?
>
>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 2:25:08 PM UTC-4, Kazutoshi SATODA wrote:
>> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html
>> (accepted for C++17)
>>
>> The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
>> "launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and
>> reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
>> preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,
>> compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted
>> each time it is used.
>
> I appreciate the fact that it's not a very a priori descriptive name. But at the same time, it's a funny name. You're taking part in a memory laundering exercise.
>
> If I have to look at/write the kind of code that needs to employ this technique, I'd like to get a chuckle out of it ;)
>
> Admittedly, it's not a very good defense of the name.
> --
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>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><br></div><div><br>On Jul =
14, 2016, at 07:53, Tony V E <<a href=3D"mailto:tvaneerd@gmail.com">tvan=
eerd@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div> =
=
<div style=3D"width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calib=
ri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-alig=
n: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">std::trust_me_i_know_wha=
t_im_doing()</div><div style=3D"width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-famil=
y: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); t=
ext-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div> =
=
<div style=3D"width: 10=
0%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans=
-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb=
(255, 255, 255);"><br></div></div></blockquote><br><div>Er shouldn't that b=
e:</div><div>std::sorry_about_last<span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255=
, 255, 255, 0);">_few_times_but_trust_me_i_know</span><span style=3D"backgr=
ound-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">_what_im_doing_this_time()</span></div=
><div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span>=
</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div> =
=
=
<div style=3D"font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro',=
sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; back=
ground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Sent from my BlackBerry&n=
bsp;portable Babbage Device</div> =
=
<tab=
le width=3D"100%" style=3D"background-color:white;border-spacing:0px;"> <tb=
ody><tr><td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"font-size: initial; text-align: initial;=
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <div sty=
le=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, 'BB Alpha=
Sans', 'Slate Pro'; font-size: 10pt;"> <div><b>From: </b>Nicol Bolas</div=
><div><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:35 PM</div><div><b>To: </b>IS=
O C++ Standard - Future Proposals</div><div><b>Reply To: </b><a href=3D"mai=
lto:std-proposals@isocpp.org">std-proposals@isocpp.org</a></div><div><b>Cc:=
</b><a href=3D"mailto:richard@metafoo.co.uk">richard@metafoo.co.uk</a></di=
v><div><b>Subject: </b>[std-proposals] Re: Better name for std::launder() ?=
</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style=3D"border-style: solid non=
e none; border-top-color: rgb(186, 188, 209); border-top-width: 1pt; font-s=
ize: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><=
/div><br><div id=3D"_originalContent" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wednes=
day, July 13, 2016 at 2:25:08 PM UTC-4, Kazutoshi SATODA wrote:<blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><a href=3D"http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc=
22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0137r0.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" o=
nmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0137r0.html\x26=
sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE91lqNMBNrD1MHIWHe0Rkwukgt1w';return t=
rue;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2015%2Fp0137r0.html\=
x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNE91lqNMBNrD1MHIWHe0Rkwukgt1w';retur=
n true;">http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/<wbr>sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/<wbr>=
p0137r0.html</a>
<br>(accepted for C++17)
<br>
<br>The name std::launder() seems cryptic. There is no hint in the word
<br>"launder" to show it is about the C++ object model, lifetime, and
<br>reusing storage. The situation is likely same even if a programmer
<br>preliminarily knows about the issues it solves. Comments like "Here,
<br>compilers should suppose new object at reused storage" will be wanted
<br>each time it is used.<br></blockquote><div><br>I appreciate the fact th=
at it's not a very a priori descriptive name. But at the same time, it's a =
<i>funny</i> name. You're taking part in a memory laundering exercise.<br><=
br>If I have to look at/write the kind of code that needs to employ this te=
chnique, I'd like to get a chuckle out of it ;)<br><br>Admittedly, it's not=
a very good defense of the name.</div></div>
<p></p>
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.
Author: Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:42:44 +0900
Raw View
On 2016/07/14 3:47 +0900, Richard Smith wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.j=
p>
> wrote:
....
>> It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(), as a strawman. The
>> example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:
>>
>> struct X { const int n; };
>> X *p =3D new X{3};
>> const int a =3D p->n;
>> new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)
>> // because X::n is const
>> const int b =3D p->n; // undefined behavior
>> const int c =3D std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)->n; // OK
>>
>>
>> What do you think? Is it too late?
>=20
> If you file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renaming
> it, along with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too late for t=
he
> committee to consider a different name.
>
>> Does someone know the history of the naming?
>=20
> The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a
> placeholder name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly been
> considered good enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed the
> name and decided unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG revie=
w
> also discussed the name briefly and did not propose changing it.
Hearing its history, with no strong rationales, I still think renaming it
is appropriate. I'll try to send a national body comment.
Thank you and those who suggested other (some funny) alternatives.
For now, I still think std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage() is the best.
"suppose" stands for possibility of cases when the original object is
still there. "new" stands to indicate lifetime issues by the well known
keyword. "reused storage" stands to indicate the issue is about reusing
the storage manually. And there is no need to shorten the name.
However, more suggestions are welcome, of course.
FYI, I found a related note about the name in a report of Kona meeting
by Jonathan Wakely, which can be an additional motivation to rename it.
> ... After the meeting it was pointed out that some industries might have
> trouble convincing regulators that =E2=80=98launder=E2=80=99 is an approp=
riate
> identifier to have in their code. (A similar objection was raised to the
> function corrupted_by_exception ...). ...
http://accu.org/var/uploads/journals/CVu281-78ac.pdf
--=20
k_satoda
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.
Author: Patrice Roy <patricer@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 21:55:29 -0400
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I, for one, like std::launder() as a name. I also hope very much for it to
remain obscure and used by the limited few who know what it's about. The
less this one gets out, the better :)
2016-07-14 21:42 GMT-04:00 Kazutoshi Satoda <k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>:
> On 2016/07/14 3:47 +0900, Richard Smith wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda <
> k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp>
> > wrote:
> ...
> >> It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(), as a strawman. The
> >> example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:
> >>
> >> struct X { const int n; };
> >> X *p =3D new X{3};
> >> const int a =3D p->n;
> >> new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)
> >> // because X::n is const
> >> const int b =3D p->n; // undefined behavior
> >> const int c =3D std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)->n; // OK
> >>
> >>
> >> What do you think? Is it too late?
> >
> > If you file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renamin=
g
> > it, along with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too late for
> the
> > committee to consider a different name.
> >
> >> Does someone know the history of the naming?
> >
> > The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a
> > placeholder name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly bee=
n
> > considered good enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed t=
he
> > name and decided unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG
> review
> > also discussed the name briefly and did not propose changing it.
>
> Hearing its history, with no strong rationales, I still think renaming it
> is appropriate. I'll try to send a national body comment.
>
> Thank you and those who suggested other (some funny) alternatives.
>
> For now, I still think std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage() is the best.
> "suppose" stands for possibility of cases when the original object is
> still there. "new" stands to indicate lifetime issues by the well known
> keyword. "reused storage" stands to indicate the issue is about reusing
> the storage manually. And there is no need to shorten the name.
>
> However, more suggestions are welcome, of course.
>
>
> FYI, I found a related note about the name in a report of Kona meeting
> by Jonathan Wakely, which can be an additional motivation to rename it.
> > ... After the meeting it was pointed out that some industries might hav=
e
> > trouble convincing regulators that =E2=80=98launder=E2=80=99 is an appr=
opriate
> > identifier to have in their code. (A similar objection was raised to th=
e
> > function corrupted_by_exception ...). ...
> http://accu.org/var/uploads/journals/CVu281-78ac.pdf
>
> --
> k_satoda
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
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d-ca12-4008-a1fb7d3315e2%40f2.dion.ne.jp
> .
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I, for one, like std::launder() as a name. I also hope ver=
y much for it to remain obscure and used by the limited few who know what i=
t's about. The less this one gets out, the better :)<br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-07-14 21:42 GMT-04:00=
Kazutoshi Satoda <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:k_satoda@f2.dion.=
ne.jp" target=3D"_blank">k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp</a>></span>:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 2016/07/14 3:47 +0900, Richard S=
mith wrote:<br>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Kazutoshi Satoda <<a href=3D"mail=
to:k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp">k_satoda@f2.dion.ne.jp</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
</span>...<br>
<span class=3D"">>> It could be std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(),=
as a strawman. The<br>
>> example at [ptr.launder] would look like this:<br>
>><br>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0struct X { const int n; };<br>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0X *p =3D new X{3};<br>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0const int a =3D p->n;<br>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0new (p) X{5}; // p does not point to new object (3.8)<=
br>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0// be=
cause X::n is const<br>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0const int b =3D p->n; // undefined behavior<br>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0const int c =3D std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage(p)-=
>n; // OK<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> What do you think? Is it too late?<br>
><br>
> If you file a national body comment on the CD ballot suggesting renami=
ng<br>
> it, along with a proposed new name and rationale, it's not too lat=
e for the<br>
> committee to consider a different name.<br>
><br>
>> Does someone know the history of the naming?<br>
><br>
> The current name was originally suggested as -- essentially -- a<br>
> placeholder name, albeit a plausible one, and seems to have broadly be=
en<br>
> considered good enough to not require changing. LEWG review discussed =
the<br>
> name and decided unanimously that they were fine with it as-is. CWG re=
view<br>
> also discussed the name briefly and did not propose changing it.<br>
<br>
</span>Hearing its history, with no strong rationales, I still think renami=
ng it<br>
is appropriate. I'll try to send a national body comment.<br>
<br>
Thank you and those who suggested other (some funny) alternatives.<br>
<br>
For now, I still think std::suppose_new_at_reused_storage() is the best.<br=
>
"suppose" stands for possibility of cases when the original objec=
t is<br>
still there. "new" stands to indicate lifetime issues by the well=
known<br>
keyword. "reused storage" stands to indicate the issue is about r=
eusing<br>
the storage manually. And there is no need to shorten the name.<br>
<br>
However, more suggestions are welcome, of course.<br>
<br>
<br>
FYI, I found a related note about the name in a report of Kona meeting<br>
by Jonathan Wakely, which can be an additional motivation to rename it.<br>
> ... After the meeting it was pointed out that some industries might ha=
ve<br>
> trouble convincing regulators that =E2=80=98launder=E2=80=99 is an app=
ropriate<br>
> identifier to have in their code. (A similar objection was raised to t=
he<br>
> function corrupted_by_exception ...). ...<br>
<a href=3D"http://accu.org/var/uploads/journals/CVu281-78ac.pdf" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://accu.org/var/uploads/journals/CVu281-78ac=
..pdf</a><br>
<br>
--<br>
k_satoda<br>
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