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<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s1600/iostream.png>

I think that is time for a standard library revision. And I ask: Why in
each new version the older parts don't evolve?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><p class=3D"separator" style=3D"text-align: center; clear:=
 both;"><a imageanchor=3D"1" href=3D"https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzW=
hle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s160=
0/iostream.png" style=3D"margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img src=3D"=
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiN=
l0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s320/iostream.png" border=3D"0" style=3D"=
" width=3D"320" height=3D"192"></a></p><p class=3D"separator" style=3D"text=
-align: center; clear: both;">I think that is time for a standard library r=
evision. And I ask: Why in each new version the older parts don&#39;t evolv=
e?</p><br></div>

<p></p>

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C++ thankfully does not follow the boneheaded doctrine that everything must
be an object, like whatever language you wish C++ was instead, so class Main
is not going to happen.



*"And I ask: Why in each new version the older parts don't evolve?"*
There's a thing called backwards compatibility, which although you clearly
don't care about - many, many other users do, as do the Committee. I'd've
thought that had been explained when you made such suggestions before

*.*
Having said that, there are ideas about a new stdlib floating around, and
I'm sure changes to iostreams are among them. Have you investigated those?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>C++ thankfully does not follow the boneheaded do=
ctrine that everything must be an object, like whatever language you wish C=
++ was instead, so <span style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">class Ma=
in</span> is not going to happen.<br><br></div><i>&quot;And I ask: Why in e=
ach new version the older parts don&#39;t evolve?&quot;<br><br></i></div><d=
iv>There&#39;s a thing called backwards compatibility, which although you c=
learly don&#39;t care about - many, many other users do, as do the Committe=
e.<i> </i>I&#39;d&#39;ve thought that had been explained when you made such=
 suggestions before<i>.<br><br></i></div><div>Having said that, there are i=
deas about a new stdlib floating around, and I&#39;m sure changes to iostre=
ams are among them. Have you investigated those?<i><br></i></div></div>

<p></p>

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class Main is my code, my question is on the comments. I saw "Standardy
Library" and not "Core Language"
----------------

Em segunda-feira, 17 de outubro de 2016 20:10:16 UTC-2, HarD Gamer escreveu:
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s1600/iostream.png>
>
> I think that is time for a standard library revision. And I ask: Why in
> each new version the older parts don't evolve?
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: =
small;">class Main is my code, my question is on the comments. I saw &quot;=
Standardy Library&quot; and not &quot;Core Language&quot;</span><div><font =
face=3D"arial, sans-serif" size=3D"2">----------------<br></font><br>Em seg=
unda-feira, 17 de outubro de 2016 20:10:16 UTC-2, HarD Gamer  escreveu:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p style=3D"text-=
align:center;clear:both"><a href=3D"https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWh=
le8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s1600=
/iostream.png" style=3D"margin-left:1em;margin-right:1em" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://lh3.googleusercon=
tent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648=
r1mwCLcB/s1600/iostream.png&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;=
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiN=
l0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s1600/iostream.png&#39;;return true;"><im=
g src=3D"https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAA=
AARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s320/iostream.png" border=3D"0" =
width=3D"320" height=3D"192"></a></p><p style=3D"text-align:center;clear:bo=
th">I think that is time for a standard library revision. And I ask: Why in=
 each new version the older parts don&#39;t evolve?</p><br></div></blockquo=
te></div></div>

<p></p>

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>
> And i go further, A good solution for older codes is stdN:: that already
> is posted here. And, I think that modules can solve that too.
>

ex::
*import* std.stl.Vector; //  current standard in 2020
=====================
*import* std2.vector // std C++14/11....

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">And i go further, A good solution for older codes is stdN:: that alread=
y is posted here. And, I think that modules can solve that too.</div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>ex::</div><div><b>import</b> std.stl.Vector; // =
=C2=A0current standard in 2020</div><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div><div><b>import</b> std2.vector // std C=
++14/11....=C2=A0</div></div>

<p></p>

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It might be interesting if you explained in what way the verbose code
suggested in that example would be better than what exists, if only to
orient debate towards the ideas you are trying to convey.

I doubt most C++ programmers would see this kind of code as an improvement
over the current situation. I know I don't, but maybe I don't understand
what you have in mind.

2016-10-17 18:10 GMT-04:00 HarD Gamer <rodrigojose690@gmail.com>:

>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s1600/iostream.png>
>
> I think that is time for a standard library revision. And I ask: Why in
> each new version the older parts don't evolve?
>
> --
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> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a21834c5-8870-42a9-
> 9187-487b2dd8e1bd%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a21834c5-8870-42a9-9187-487b2dd8e1bd%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>It might be interesting if you explained in what way =
the verbose code suggested in that example would be better than what exists=
, if only to orient debate towards the ideas you are trying to convey.<br><=
br></div><div>I doubt most C++ programmers would see this kind of code as a=
n improvement over the current situation. I know I don&#39;t, but maybe I d=
on&#39;t understand what you have in mind.<br></div></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-10-17 18:10 GMT-04:00 HarD Ga=
mer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rodrigojose690@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">rodrigojose690@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p class=3D"m_-143579894594709045separator" =
style=3D"text-align:center;clear:both"><a href=3D"https://lh3.googleusercon=
tent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/WAVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648=
r1mwCLcB/s1600/iostream.png" style=3D"margin-left:1em;margin-right:1em" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TzWhle8oukU/W=
AVKlvpy2NI/AAAAAAAAARk/lMiNl0DpC9IW9jwqPxyXxDs1P1648r1mwCLcB/s320/iostream.=
png" height=3D"192" width=3D"320" border=3D"0"></a></p><p class=3D"m_-14357=
9894594709045separator" style=3D"text-align:center;clear:both">I think that=
 is time for a standard library revision. And I ask: Why in each new versio=
n the older parts don&#39;t evolve?</p><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=
=3D"#888888"><br></font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"=
#888888">

<p></p>

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34c5-8870-42a9-<wbr>9187-487b2dd8e1bd%40isocpp.org</a><wbr>.<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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>
> Patricy,
>
 Do you like write casts all times that need write strings in high level
code? or binary files?
Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify error conditions? (...)

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Patricy,<br></div></blockquote><div>=C2=A0Do you like write casts all t=
imes that need write strings in high level code? or binary files?</div><div=
>Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify error conditions? (...=
)</div></div>

<p></p>

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Please answer the question; if there's no problem you can identify clearly,
then this might not be the right forum for you. It's Ok, there are many
other discussion spaces out there.

2016-10-17 19:25 GMT-04:00 HarD Gamer <rodrigojose690@gmail.com>:

> Patricy,
>>
>  Do you like write casts all times that need write strings in high level
> code? or binary files?
> Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify error conditions? (...)
>
> --
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> 9b31-5360b8d5c769%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/040d6874-1da5-426f-9b31-5360b8d5c769%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Please answer the question; if there&#39;s no problem you =
can identify clearly, then this might not be the right forum for you. It&#3=
9;s Ok, there are many other discussion spaces out there.<br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-10-17 19:25 GMT-04:0=
0 HarD Gamer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rodrigojose690@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">rodrigojose690@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Patricy,<br></div></blockquote><div>=C2=A0Do you like =
write casts all times that need write strings in high level code? or binary=
 files?</div><div>Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify error=
 conditions? (...)</div></div><span class=3D"">

<p></p>

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6874-1da5-426f-<wbr>9b31-5360b8d5c769%40isocpp.org</a><wbr>.<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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My questions are the aswers.
===============
Patricy,

> Please answer the question; if there's no problem you can identify
> clearly, then this might not be the right forum for you. It's Ok, there are
> many other discussion spaces out there.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>My questions are the aswers.</div><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div><div>Patricy,=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Please answer the questi=
on; if there&#39;s no problem you can identify clearly, then this might not=
 be the right forum for you. It&#39;s Ok, there are many other discussion s=
paces out there.<br></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 6:10:16 PM UTC-4, HarD Gamer wrote:
>
> I think that is time for a standard library revision. And I ask: Why in
> each new version the older parts don't evolve?
>

They do evolve. What they do not do is:

1: Radically change themselves with every version of the language.
Backwards compatibility is not something we break lightly. Or pretty much
at all without fair warning.

2: Use different naming conventions because a guy on a forum prefers
InterCaps to under_scores.

If you would like to put forth a coherent proposal for some aspect of the
standard library to change, feel free. But all you've done in this thread
is make vague claims about the standard library not evolving in the
direction you prefer. That's hardly constructive.

Before you do so however, you might want to consider that it's unlikely
that people will find "change the naming convention of everything to
Java-style" to be a useful starting point.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 6:10:16 PM UTC-4, H=
arD Gamer wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin=
-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><p style=3D"text-align:center;clear:both"></p><p style=3D"text-align:cen=
ter;clear:both">I think that is time for a standard library revision. And I=
 ask: Why in each new version the older parts don&#39;t evolve?</p></div></=
blockquote><div><br>They do evolve. What they do not do is:<br><br>1: Radic=
ally change=20
themselves with every version of the language. Backwards compatibility=20
is not something we break lightly. Or pretty much at all without fair=20
warning.<br><br>2: Use different naming conventions because a guy on a foru=
m prefers InterCaps to under_scores.<br><br>If
 you would like to put forth a coherent proposal for some aspect of the=20
standard library to change, feel free. But all you&#39;ve done in this=20
thread is make vague claims about the standard library not evolving in=20
the direction you prefer. That&#39;s hardly constructive.<br><br>Before you=
 do so however, you might want to consider that it&#39;s unlikely that peop=
le will find &quot;change the naming convention of everything to Java-style=
&quot; to be a useful starting point.<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 7:25:28 PM UTC-4, HarD Gamer wrote:
>
> Do you like write casts all times that need write strings in high level
> code?
>

No, but fortunately, C++ requires no such thing. I don't recall needed to
do much casting when working with `std::string`.

Perhaps you could give an example of the problem you are referring to.


> or binary files?
>

.... huh?

Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify error conditions? (...)
>

That *really* depends on who you ask. And what code you're talking about.
And what the purpose of that code is.

Error codes are a perfectly valid means of communicating failure
conditions. So are exceptions. Each is appropriate in its own domain. But
we should never believe that one is so superior to the other that the other
never ought to be used.

Personally, I'm in favor of always giving the user a choice about such
things.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 7:25:28 PM UTC-4, HarD Game=
r wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0=
..8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div></blockquote><div=
>Do you like write casts all times that need write strings in high level co=
de?</div></div></blockquote><div><br>No, but fortunately, C++ requires no s=
uch thing. I don&#39;t recall needed to do much casting when working with `=
std::string`.<br><br>Perhaps you could give an example of the problem you a=
re referring to.<br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>or binary files?</div></div></blockquote><div><br>.=
... huh?<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;m=
argin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div>Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify error con=
ditions? (...)</div></div></blockquote><div><br>That <i>really</i> depends =
on who you ask. And what code you&#39;re talking about. And what the purpos=
e of that code is.<br><br>Error codes are a perfectly valid means of commun=
icating failure conditions. So are exceptions. Each is appropriate in its o=
wn domain. But we should never believe that one is so superior to the other=
 that the other never ought to be used.<br><br>Personally, I&#39;m in favor=
 of always giving the user a choice about such things.<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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Why is StringList not const? That's the real question here.
Also, what is StringList? Never seen that in C++ before.
Wouldn't it be std::forward_list<std::string>?
Or maybe forward_list<string>?
Hell, I'd settle for even list<string>; why have a hard coded type for
StringList when you could have a generic type that can be used over and
over, like our current std::list?

It also looks like you are iterating over the StringList to get each string
as an item; sure.
But why do you then need to pass the length of the item (a string) to cout?
Why can't cout interpolate with a string enough to know the "length"
automatically?
What happens when string is passed to a different kind of out? Does it need
to pass the length every time?
Why don't we have an idiom to make this easier and reduce effort?

Seems like the current C++11 standard is better in this regard:

int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {
    std::vector<std::string> arguments(argv, argv + argc);
    for(auto&& item : arguments) {
        std::cout << item << '\n';
    }
}

Look, mine is even smaller!

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 7:25:28 PM UTC-4, HarD Gamer wrote:
>>
>> Do you like write casts all times that need write strings in high level
>> code?
>>
>
> No, but fortunately, C++ requires no such thing. I don't recall needed to
> do much casting when working with `std::string`.
>
> Perhaps you could give an example of the problem you are referring to.
>
>
>> or binary files?
>>
>
> ... huh?
>
> Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify error conditions? (...)
>>
>
> That *really* depends on who you ask. And what code you're talking about.
> And what the purpose of that code is.
>
> Error codes are a perfectly valid means of communicating failure
> conditions. So are exceptions. Each is appropriate in its own domain. But
> we should never believe that one is so superior to the other that the other
> never ought to be used.
>
> Personally, I'm in favor of always giving the user a choice about such
> things.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
> To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/
> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/82f33d33-bb86-4230-
> 867f-fdb73fc17bc9%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/82f33d33-bb86-4230-867f-fdb73fc17bc9%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Why is StringList not const? That&#39;s the real question =
here.<div>Also, what is StringList? Never seen that in C++ before.</div><di=
v>Wouldn&#39;t it be std::forward_list&lt;std::string&gt;?<br>Or maybe forw=
ard_list&lt;string&gt;?</div><div>Hell, I&#39;d settle for even list&lt;str=
ing&gt;; why have a hard coded type for StringList when you could have a ge=
neric type that can be used over and over, like our current std::list?</div=
><div><br></div><div>It also looks like you are iterating over the StringLi=
st to get each string as an item; sure.</div><div>But why do you then need =
to pass the length of the item (a string) to cout?</div><div>Why can&#39;t =
cout interpolate with a string enough to know the &quot;length&quot; automa=
tically?</div><div>What happens when string is passed to a different kind o=
f out? Does it need to pass the length every time?</div><div>Why don&#39;t =
we have an idiom to make this easier and reduce effort?</div><div><br></div=
><div>Seems like the current C++11 standard is better in this regard:</div>=
<div><br></div><div>int main(int argc,=C2=A0char* argv[]) {</div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 std::vector&lt;std::string&gt; arguments(argv, argv + argc);<br>=
</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for(auto&amp;&amp; item : arguments) {</div><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 std::cout &lt;&lt; item &lt;&lt; &#39;\n&#39;;<=
/div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }</div><div>}</div><div><br></div><div>Look, mine i=
s even smaller!</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Nicol Bolas <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:jmckesson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jmckesson@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><span class=3D"">On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 7:25:28 PM UTC-4, HarD Ga=
mer wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0=
..8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div></blockquote><div>Do=
 you like write casts all times that need write strings in high level code?=
</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>No, but fortunately, C++ requires =
no such thing. I don&#39;t recall needed to do much casting when working wi=
th `std::string`.<br><br>Perhaps you could give an example of the problem y=
ou are referring to.<br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>or binary files?</div></div></blockquote><div><br>..=
.. huh?<br><br></div><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Do you like error codes or exceptions that simplify=
 error conditions? (...)</div></div></blockquote></span><div><br>That <i>re=
ally</i> depends on who you ask. And what code you&#39;re talking about. An=
d what the purpose of that code is.<br><br>Error codes are a perfectly vali=
d means of communicating failure conditions. So are exceptions. Each is app=
ropriate in its own domain. But we should never believe that one is so supe=
rior to the other that the other never ought to be used.<br><br>Personally,=
 I&#39;m in favor of always giving the user a choice about such things.<br>=
</div></div><span class=3D"">

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Hi,

Error codes are a perfectly valid means of communicating failure
> conditions. So are exceptions. Each is appropriate in its own domain. But
> we should never believe that one is so superior to the other that the other
> never ought to be used.
>
> Personally, I'm in favor of always giving the user a choice about such
> things.
>
... and jftr, in C++11 you can just do that by accepting an 'error lambda'
in your function:

template<typename OnError>
int parseInt(const std::string& s, OnError error)
{
    int ret = 0;
    for (char c : s) {
        if (!is_digit(c)) return error(ret);
        ret *= 10; ret += c;
    }
    return ret;
}

int main()
{
    std::string s("123a");
    std::cout << parseInt(s, [](int)   { throw ParseException(); } );
    std::cout << parseInt(s, [](int i) { return  i; } );
    std::cout << parseInt(s, [](int i) { return -1; } );
}

Thanks,
-lorro

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<br><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div>Error codes are a perfectly valid means of communicatin=
g failure conditions. So are exceptions. Each is appropriate in its own dom=
ain. But we should never believe that one is so superior to the other that =
the other never ought to be used.<br><br>Personally, I&#39;m in favor of al=
ways giving the user a choice about such things.<br></div></div></blockquot=
e><div>.. and jftr, in C++11 you can just do that by accepting an &#39;erro=
r lambda&#39; in your function:<br><br><div class=3D"prettyprint" style=3D"=
background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250); border-color: rgb(187, 187, 187); bor=
der-style: solid; border-width: 1px; word-wrap: break-word;"><code class=3D=
"prettyprint"><div class=3D"subprettyprint"><span style=3D"color: #008;" cl=
ass=3D"styled-by-prettify">template</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" clas=
s=3D"styled-by-prettify">&lt;</span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"s=
tyled-by-prettify">typename</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"sty=
led-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #606;" class=3D"styled-by-pr=
ettify">OnError</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prett=
ify">&gt;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><=
br></span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">int</sp=
an><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> parseInt</spa=
n><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">(</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">const</span><span style=
=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> std</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">::</span><span style=3D"color: #00=
8;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">string</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" =
class=3D"styled-by-prettify">&amp;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=
=3D"styled-by-prettify"> s</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styl=
ed-by-prettify">,</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pre=
ttify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #606;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">On=
Error</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> erro=
r</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">)</span><=
span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br></span><span s=
tyle=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">{</span><span style=3D"c=
olor: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </span><span st=
yle=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">int</span><span style=3D"=
color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> ret </span><span style=3D"color=
: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #000;=
" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #066;" class=
=3D"styled-by-prettify">0</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"style=
d-by-prettify">;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pret=
tify"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled=
-by-prettify">for</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pre=
ttify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">(<=
/span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">char</span>=
<span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> c </span><span s=
tyle=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">:</span><span style=3D"c=
olor: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> s</span><span style=3D"color: #6=
60;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">)</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" clas=
s=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styl=
ed-by-prettify">{</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pre=
ttify"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </span><span style=3D"color: #008;" =
class=3D"styled-by-prettify">if</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D=
"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-b=
y-prettify">(!</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pretti=
fy">is_digit</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify=
">(</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">c</span=
><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">))</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"c=
olor: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">return</span><span style=3D"color=
: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> error</span><span style=3D"color: #6=
60;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">(</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" clas=
s=3D"styled-by-prettify">ret</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"st=
yled-by-prettify">);</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-=
prettify"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ret </span><span style=3D"color: =
#660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">*=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #000;"=
 class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #066;" class=3D=
"styled-by-prettify">10</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-=
by-prettify">;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pretti=
fy"> ret </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">+=
=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> c</spa=
n><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">;</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </span=
><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">}</span><span st=
yle=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </span>=
<span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">return</span><spa=
n style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> ret</span><span styl=
e=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br></span><span style=3D"color: #66=
0;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">}</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=
=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br><br></span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=
=3D"styled-by-prettify">int</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"sty=
led-by-prettify"> main</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-b=
y-prettify">()</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pretti=
fy"><br></span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">{<=
/span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 std</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">=
::</span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">string</=
span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> s</span><sp=
an style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">(</span><span style=
=3D"color: #080;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">&quot;123a&quot;</span><span=
 style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">);</span><span style=
=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 std</span>=
<span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">::</span><span st=
yle=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">cout </span><span style=
=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">&lt;&lt;</span><span style=
=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> parseInt</span><span style=
=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">(</span><span style=3D"color=
: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">s</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" =
class=3D"styled-by-prettify">,</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"=
styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by=
-prettify">[](</span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-pretti=
fy">int</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">)</=
span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> =C2=A0 </sp=
an><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">{</span><span =
style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"=
color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">throw</span><span style=3D"color=
: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #606;" =
class=3D"styled-by-prettify">ParseException</span><span style=3D"color: #66=
0;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">();</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" cla=
ss=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"sty=
led-by-prettify">}</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pr=
ettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">)=
;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 std</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-pretti=
fy">::</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">cout=
 </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">&lt;&lt;<=
/span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> parseInt</=
span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">(</span><spa=
n style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">s</span><span style=
=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">,</span><span style=3D"color=
: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" =
class=3D"styled-by-prettify">[](</span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=
=3D"styled-by-prettify">int</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"sty=
led-by-prettify"> i</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-p=
rettify">)</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">=
 </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">{</span><=
span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span styl=
e=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">return</span><span style=3D=
"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> =C2=A0</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">i</span><span style=3D"color: #660=
;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=
=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"style=
d-by-prettify">}</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pret=
tify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">);<=
/span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 std</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">=
::</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">cout </s=
pan><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">&lt;&lt;</spa=
n><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> parseInt</span=
><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">(</span><span st=
yle=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">s</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">,</span><span style=3D"color: #000=
;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=
=3D"styled-by-prettify">[](</span><span style=3D"color: #008;" class=3D"sty=
led-by-prettify">int</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-=
prettify"> i</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify=
">)</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span=
><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">{</span><span st=
yle=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"co=
lor: #008;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">return</span><span style=3D"color:=
 #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" c=
lass=3D"styled-by-prettify">-</span><span style=3D"color: #066;" class=3D"s=
tyled-by-prettify">1</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-=
prettify">;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"=
> </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">}</span>=
<span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"> </span><span sty=
le=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">);</span><span style=3D"co=
lor: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br></span><span style=3D"color: #=
660;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">}</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" cla=
ss=3D"styled-by-prettify"><br></span></div></code></div><br>Thanks,<br>-lor=
ro<br><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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> Nicol Bolas, I'm not talking about naming conventions. I'm talking about
> "why is the standardy library obsolete?"
>
Bjarme says us to use the std:: massively, but we can't do it.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><di=
v class=3D"m_-7675882159026300988prettyprint" style=3D"background-color:rgb=
(250,250,250);border-color:rgb(187,187,187);border-style:solid;border-width=
:1px;word-wrap:break-word"><code class=3D"m_-7675882159026300988prettyprint=
"><div class=3D"m_-7675882159026300988subprettyprint">Nicol Bolas, I&#39;m =
not talking about naming conventions. I&#39;m talking about &quot;why is th=
e standardy library obsolete?&quot;</div></code></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div>Bjarme says us to use the std:: massively, but we can&#39;t do it.=
</div></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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Ren Industries,

*consider: int main(int argc, char *argv[])*
Is argv const? Or * * const?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: =
12.8px; font-weight: bold; white-space: nowrap;">Ren Industries,</span><div=
><font face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size: 12.8px; white-s=
pace: nowrap;"><b>consider: int main(int argc, char *argv[])<br></b></span>=
</font><div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12.8p=
x; font-weight: bold; white-space: nowrap;">Is argv const? Or * * const?</s=
pan></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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What are you talking about? Why is it "obsolete"? Who is "Bjarme" and why
can we not '"use the std:: massively"? As Patrice said, you haven't
actually described a problem or introduced a solution, so there is no
proposal here, and so this is the wrong place to publish your half-formed
opinions and have irrelevant back-and-forth quips with other users. Start a
blog or something.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>What are you talking about? Why is it &quot;obsolete&=
quot;? Who is &quot;Bjarme&quot; and why can we not &#39;&quot;use the std:=
: massively&quot;? As Patrice said, you haven&#39;t actually described a pr=
oblem or introduced a solution, so there is no proposal here, and so this i=
s the wrong place to publish your half-formed opinions and have irrelevant =
back-and-forth quips with other users. Start a blog or something.<br></div>=
</div>

<p></p>

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>
> Ren Industries,
>
Can you work with your example with binary files? I think you don't


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<div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><span style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px; font-=
weight: bold; white-space: nowrap;">Ren Industries,</span></div></blockquot=
e><div>Can you work with your example with binary files? I think you don&#3=
9;t=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div>

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https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarne_Stroustrup Bjarne*,
obsolete is older, no
robust, no uniform....
=============
Em quarta-feira, 19 de outubro de 2016 19:00:36 UTC-2, D. B. escreveu:
>
> What are you talking about? Why is it "obsolete"? Who is "Bjarme" and why
> can we not '"use the std:: massively"? As Patrice said, you haven't
> actually described a problem or introduced a solution, so there is no
> proposal here, and so this is the wrong place to publish your half-formed
> opinions and have irrelevant back-and-forth quips with other users. Start a
> blog or something.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjarne_Stroustrup Bjarne*,<d=
iv>obsolete is older, no=C2=A0<br><span style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33); fo=
nt-family: arial, sans-serif; white-space: pre-wrap;"><font size=3D"2">robu=
st, no uniform....</font></span></div><div><font color=3D"#212121" face=3D"=
arial, sans-serif" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap;">=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br></span></font>Em quarta-feira, 19 de o=
utubro de 2016 19:00:36 UTC-2, D. B.  escreveu:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>What are you talking about? Why is i=
t &quot;obsolete&quot;? Who is &quot;Bjarme&quot; and why can we not &#39;&=
quot;use the std:: massively&quot;? As Patrice said, you haven&#39;t actual=
ly described a problem or introduced a solution, so there is no proposal he=
re, and so this is the wrong place to publish your half-formed opinions and=
 have irrelevant back-and-forth quips with other users. Start a blog or som=
ething.<br></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>

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"Obsolete" means it's outdated to the point of being risky to use. That
does not describe the stdlib. You not personally liking its naming
conventions, or a lack of uniformity among them, does not make it
"obsolete".

I also fail to find anywhere that you have described how it the stdlib is
not "robust", by any usual definition of that word. I think the programmers
who maintain the various implementations of the stdlib would appreciate
being informed if somehow their products are not robust, really. Again,
lack of uniformity or propensity for verbosity do not make something
non-robust.

Even if this weren't all just based on your opinions, you are not providing
any actual thesis for why and how it should be changed. A series of
expositions on things you don't like and very vague riddles posed to other
users do not constitute a proposal.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>&quot;Obsolete&quot; means it&#39;s outdated to the p=
oint of being risky to use. That does not describe the stdlib. You not pers=
onally liking its naming conventions, or a lack of uniformity among them, d=
oes not make it &quot;obsolete&quot;.<br><br>I also fail to find anywhere t=
hat you have described how it the stdlib is not &quot;robust&quot;, by any =
usual definition of that word. I think the programmers who maintain the var=
ious=20
implementations of the stdlib would appreciate being informed if somehow
 their products are not robust, really. Again, lack of uniformity or propen=
sity for verbosity do not make something non-robust.<br><br></div>Even if t=
his weren&#39;t all just based on your opinions, you are not providing any =
actual thesis for why and how it should be changed. A series of expositions=
 on things you don&#39;t like and very vague riddles posed to other users d=
o not constitute a proposal.<br></div>

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As I said, I'm not talking naming convetins; The std:: is  obsolete, what
is  < c++11 is

untouched. I think in a std:: like the Qt library: Each part works fine
with alll stuffs, Each part supports any other, It doesn't have incomplete
classes, types, modules..., and so on. It the Qt library Guidline be
applied to std::, It won't be robust.
P.S.:
Qt guidlines, but with:
exceptions,
size_t for indexing strings, streams, ...)
without moc.
[And again, I'm not talking about naming conventions.]

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">As I said, I&#39;m not talking =
naming convetins; The std:: is =C2=A0obsolete, what is =C2=A0&lt; c++11 is=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><span style=3D"color:rgb(3=
3,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">untouched. I think in  a std:: like the Qt l=
ibrary: Each part works fine with alll stuffs, Each part supports any other=
, It doesn&#39;t have incomplete classes, types, modules..., and so on. It =
the Qt library Guidline be applied to std::, It won&#39;t be robust.</span>=
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">P.S.:</span><=
/div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">Qt guidl=
ines, but with:</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-s=
pace:pre-wrap">exceptions,</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,=
33);white-space:pre-wrap">size_t for indexing strings, streams, ...)</span>=
</div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">without=
 moc.</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-w=
rap">[And again, I&#39;m not talking about naming conventions.]   </span><d=
iv><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span=
></div></div></div></div>

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Jos=C3=A9,

I find your train of thought very difficult to fathom. I might not be
bright enough to understand what you are trying to convey.

I will suggest, once again, that if you want to submit a proposal here, you
take the time to write it throroughly, explain your proposal, ensure it's
clear enough to people you normally read in English, and only then post it.
Remember that there are other locations to express yourself if you don't
like something for personal reasons and want to vent. This forum is not
such a place.


2016-10-19 17:56 GMT-04:00 Jos=C3=A9 Rodrigo <rodrigojose690@gmail.com>:

> As I said, I'm not talking naming convetins; The std:: is  obsolete, what
> is  < c++11 is
>
> untouched. I think in a std:: like the Qt library: Each part works fine
> with alll stuffs, Each part supports any other, It doesn't have incomplet=
e
> classes, types, modules..., and so on. It the Qt library Guidline be
> applied to std::, It won't be robust.
> P.S.:
> Qt guidlines, but with:
> exceptions,
> size_t for indexing strings, streams, ...)
> without moc.
> [And again, I'm not talking about naming conventions.]
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
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> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAJe%2Baq_s4dLyGZE9uT2Vqct%2Be1Temy%
> 3DNupR8Ox-0awNRXeeS%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/CAJe%2Baq_s=
4dLyGZE9uT2Vqct%2Be1Temy%3DNupR8Ox-0awNRXeeS%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_mediu=
m=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Jos=C3=A9,<br><br></div>I find your train of tho=
ught very difficult to fathom. I might not be bright enough to understand w=
hat you are trying to convey.<br><br></div>I will suggest, once again, that=
 if you want to submit a proposal here, you take the time to write it thror=
oughly, explain your proposal, ensure it&#39;s clear enough to people you n=
ormally read in English, and only then post it. Remember that there are oth=
er locations to express yourself if you don&#39;t like something for person=
al reasons and want to vent. This forum is not such a place.<br><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-10-19 17:56 G=
MT-04:00 Jos=C3=A9 Rodrigo <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rodrigoj=
ose690@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rodrigojose690@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra">As I said, I&#39;m not talking naming convetins; The std:: is =C2=A0ob=
solete, what is =C2=A0&lt; c++11 is=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
br></div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">untouched=
.. I think in  a std:: like the Qt library: Each part works fine with alll s=
tuffs, Each part supports any other, It doesn&#39;t have incomplete classes=
, types, modules..., and so on. It the Qt library Guidline be applied to st=
d::, It won&#39;t be robust.</span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);=
white-space:pre-wrap">P.S.:</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33=
,33);white-space:pre-wrap">Qt guidlines, but with:</span></div><div><span s=
tyle=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">exceptions,</span></div><=
div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">size_t for ind=
exing strings, streams, ...)</span></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,3=
3,33);white-space:pre-wrap">without moc.</span></div><div><span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(33,33,33);white-space:pre-wrap">[And again, I&#39;m not talking abo=
ut naming conventions.]   </span><div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,3=
3);white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></div></div></div></div><span class=3D"=
">

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</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Neither, as argv isn't const; the contents of that array may be modified by
the program.
Not sure what that has to do with your contrived example though, and it
doesn't answer literally any of the other questions I asked.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 PM, HarD Gamer <rodrigojose690@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ren Industries,
>
> *consider: int main(int argc, char *argv[])*
> Is argv const? Or * * const?
>
> --
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> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/65ad37f5-f499-470a-
> a3f4-954d48cacc03%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/65ad37f5-f499-470a-a3f4-954d48cacc03%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Neither, as argv isn&#39;t const; the contents of that arr=
ay may be modified by the program.<div>Not sure what that has to do with yo=
ur contrived example though, and it doesn&#39;t answer literally any of the=
 other questions I asked.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 PM, HarD Gamer <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rodrigojose690@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
rodrigojose690@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:12.8px;font-weight:bold;white-space:nowrap">Ren Industries,</span><div><f=
ont face=3D"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;white-space:=
nowrap"><b>consider: int main(int argc, char *argv[])<br></b></span></font>=
<div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-weig=
ht:bold;white-space:nowrap">Is argv const? Or * * const?</span></div></div>=
</div><span class=3D"">

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37f5-f499-470a-<wbr>a3f4-954d48cacc03%40isocpp.org</a><wbr>.<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Neither my example nor yours included any instance of "files".
cout is a stream.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:02 PM, HarD Gamer <rodrigojose690@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ren Industries,
>>
> Can you work with your example with binary files? I think you don't
>
>
> --
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> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a6128ffd-433e-4535-
> a876-5c8cef7aa1ce%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a6128ffd-433e-4535-a876-5c8cef7aa1ce%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Neither my example nor yours included any instance of &quo=
t;files&quot;.=C2=A0<div>cout is a stream.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:02 PM, HarD =
Gamer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rodrigojose690@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">rodrigojose690@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
2.8px;font-weight:bold;white-space:nowrap">Ren Industries,</span></div></bl=
ockquote><div>Can you work with your example with binary files? I think you=
 don&#39;t=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div><span class=3D"">

<p></p>

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8ffd-433e-4535-<wbr>a876-5c8cef7aa1ce%40isocpp.org</a><wbr>.<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Sorry, args is not const because I need to modify It in my Main::main()
application.

Em quarta-feira, 19 de outubro de 2016 21:19:57 UTC-2, Ren Industries
escreveu:
>
> Neither, as argv isn't const; the contents of that array may be modified
> by the program.
> Not sure what that has to do with your contrived example though, and it
> doesn't answer literally any of the other questions I asked.
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 PM, HarD Gamer <rodrigo...@gmail.com
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> Ren Industries,
>>
>> *consider: int main(int argc, char *argv[])*
>> Is argv const? Or * * const?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
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>> email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org <javascript:>.
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/65ad37f5-f499-470a-a3f4-954d48cacc03%40isocpp.org
>> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/65ad37f5-f499-470a-a3f4-954d48cacc03%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Sorry, args is not const because I need to modify It in my=
 Main::main() application.<br><br>Em quarta-feira, 19 de outubro de 2016 21=
:19:57 UTC-2, Ren Industries  escreveu:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Neither, as argv isn&#39;t const; the contents of=
 that array may be modified by the program.<div>Not sure what that has to d=
o with your contrived example though, and it doesn&#39;t answer literally a=
ny of the other questions I asked.</div></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:59 PM, HarD Gamer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"jVTWpaT-Bg=
AJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;retur=
n true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">rodrigo=
....@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;fo=
nt-weight:bold;white-space:nowrap">Ren Industries,</span><div><font face=3D=
"arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;white-space:nowrap"><b>=
consider: int main(int argc, char *argv[])<br></b></span></font><div><span =
style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-weight:bold;whi=
te-space:nowrap">Is argv const? Or * * const?</span></div></div></div><span=
>

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div>

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I said "files" because fstreams inherit streams

Em quarta-feira, 19 de outubro de 2016 21:20:38 UTC-2, Ren Industries
escreveu:
>
> Neither my example nor yours included any instance of "files".
> cout is a stream.
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:02 PM, HarD Gamer <rodrigo...@gmail.com
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> Ren Industries,
>>>
>> Can you work with your example with binary files? I think you don't
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org <javascript:>.
>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org <javascript:>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a6128ffd-433e-4535-a876-5c8cef7aa1ce%40isocpp.org
>> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a6128ffd-433e-4535-a876-5c8cef7aa1ce%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I said &quot;files&quot; because fstreams=C2=A0inherit str=
eams<br><br>Em quarta-feira, 19 de outubro de 2016 21:20:38 UTC-2, Ren Indu=
stries  escreveu:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">Neither my example nor yours included any instance of &quot;files&quot;=
..=C2=A0<div>cout is a stream.</div></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:02 PM, HarD Gamer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"EVq2Oq7-BgAJ" r=
el=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return tru=
e;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">rodrigo...@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-weight:bold;white-=
space:nowrap">Ren Industries,</span></div></blockquote><div>Can you work wi=
th your example with binary files? I think you don&#39;t=C2=A0</div><div>=
=C2=A0</div></div><span>

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</blockquote></div><br></div>
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On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 5:02:42 PM UTC-4, HarD Gamer wrote:
>
> Ren Industries,
>>
> Can you work with your example with binary files? I think you don't
>
>

"Work" in what sense?

Yes, you can use any output fstream, even one opened with `ios::binary`,
with that code. It will do exactly what it says it does: write the
characters of a string with no text-to-binary translation, followed by a
`\n` character with no text-to-binary translation.

Does that satisfy your definition of "work"? Or are you trying to serialize
objects, which is a very different, and *far* more complex, operation?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 5:02:42 PM UTC-4=
, HarD Gamer wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;mar=
gin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=
=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-weight:bold;white-sp=
ace:nowrap">Ren Industries,</span></div></blockquote><div>Can you work with=
 your example with binary files? I think you don&#39;t=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=
=A0</div></div></blockquote><div><br>&quot;Work&quot; in what sense?<br><br=
>Yes, you can use any output fstream, even one opened with `ios::binary`, w=
ith that code. It will do exactly what it says it does: write the character=
s of a string with no text-to-binary translation, followed by a `\n` charac=
ter with no text-to-binary translation.<br><br>Does that satisfy your defin=
ition of &quot;work&quot;? Or are you trying to serialize objects, which is=
 a very different, and <i>far</i> more complex, operation?<br></div></div>

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fstream is a kind of stream, sure. But we are dealing with cout. Which is
not an fstream, but an ostream.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 7:08 AM, HarD Gamer <rodrigojose690@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I said "files" because fstreams inherit streams
>
> Em quarta-feira, 19 de outubro de 2016 21:20:38 UTC-2, Ren Industries
> escreveu:
>>
>> Neither my example nor yours included any instance of "files".
>> cout is a stream.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:02 PM, HarD Gamer <rodrigo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ren Industries,
>>>>
>>> Can you work with your example with binary files? I think you don't
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> ocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a6128ffd-433e-4535-a876-
>>> 5c8cef7aa1ce%40isocpp.org
>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/a6128ffd-433e-4535-a876-5c8cef7aa1ce%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>> --
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<div dir=3D"ltr">fstream is a kind of stream, sure. But we are dealing with=
 cout. Which is not an fstream, but an ostream.</div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 7:08 AM, HarD G=
amer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rodrigojose690@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">rodrigojose690@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I said &quot;files&quot; because fstre=
ams=C2=A0inherit streams<span class=3D""><br><br>Em quarta-feira, 19 de out=
ubro de 2016 21:20:38 UTC-2, Ren Industries  escreveu:</span><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr">Neither my exam=
ple nor yours included any instance of &quot;files&quot;.=C2=A0<div>cout is=
 a stream.</div></div></span><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span clas=
s=3D"">On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 5:02 PM, HarD Gamer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 rel=3D"nofollow">rodrigo...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></span><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-family:arial=
,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-weight:bold;white-space:nowrap">Ren Indus=
tries,</span></div></blockquote><div>Can you work with your example with bi=
nary files? I think you don&#39;t=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></span>=
<span><span class=3D"">

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</span></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><span class=3D"">

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