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I'd just use the preprocessor to define it as:

#define _U+ 0x

that way it's easier to identify Unicode code points from other hex data at
a glance.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;d just use the preprocessor to define it as:=C2=A0<d=
iv><br></div><div>#define _U+ 0x</div><div><br></div><div>that way it&#39;s=
 easier to identify Unicode code points from other hex data at a glance.</d=
iv></div>

<p></p>

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What is the proposal? This can already be done, though I suspect
user-defined literals are a far cleaner solution than macros. Do you want
the Committee to standardise a trivial macro or UDL? Seems unlikely.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">What is the proposal? This can already be done, though I s=
uspect user-defined literals are a far cleaner solution than macros. Do you=
 want the Committee to standardise a trivial macro or UDL? Seems unlikely.<=
br></div>

<p></p>

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The main problem is that the preprocessor doesn't support using
non-alphanumeric (and underscores and hyphens) in macros.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">The main problem is that the preprocessor doesn&#39;t supp=
ort using non-alphanumeric (and underscores and hyphens) in macros.<br></di=
v>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 11:08:21 AM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> I'd just use the preprocessor to define it as:
>
> #define _U+ 0x
>
> that way it's easier to identify Unicode code points from other hex data
> at a glance.
>

We have a perfectly adequate way to identify a Unicode codepoint in C++:

char32_t c = U'\U12345678';
char32_t c_short = U'\u1234';

If adding a macro makes this a bit more readable for you, that's up to you.
But "U'\u1234'" is no shorter than "_U+(1234)" in terms of character count.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 11:08:21 AM UTC-5, bumbleb=
r...@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;m=
argin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">I&#39;d just use the preprocessor to define it as:=C2=A0<div><br><=
/div><div>#define _U+ 0x</div><div><br></div><div>that way it&#39;s easier =
to identify Unicode code points from other hex data at a glance.</div></div=
></blockquote><div><br>We have a perfectly adequate way to identify a Unico=
de codepoint in C++:<br><br><div style=3D"background-color: rgb(250, 250, 2=
50); border-color: rgb(187, 187, 187); border-style: solid; border-width: 1=
px; overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=3D"prettyprint"><code class=3D"pretty=
print"><div class=3D"subprettyprint"><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"=
styled-by-prettify">char32_t c </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D=
"styled-by-prettify">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled=
-by-prettify"> U</span><span style=3D"color: #080;" class=3D"styled-by-pret=
tify">&#39;\U12345678&#39;</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styl=
ed-by-prettify">;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-pre=
ttify"><br>char32_t c_short </span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"st=
yled-by-prettify">=3D</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by=
-prettify"> U</span><span style=3D"color: #080;" class=3D"styled-by-prettif=
y">&#39;\u1234&#39;</span><span style=3D"color: #660;" class=3D"styled-by-p=
rettify">;</span><span style=3D"color: #000;" class=3D"styled-by-prettify">=
 </span></div></code></div><br>If adding a macro makes this a bit more read=
able for you, that&#39;s up to you. But &quot;<span style=3D"font-family: c=
ourier new,monospace;">U&#39;\u1234&#39;</span>&quot; is no shorter than &q=
uot;<span style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;">_U+(1234)</span>&qu=
ot; in terms of character count.<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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The plan was to #define _U+ to just U+, maybe I should update the OP? Oh,
and + isn't supported in iso646 or di/tri graphs either, so it's pretty
much impossible currently.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">The plan was to #define _U+ to just U+, maybe I should upd=
ate the OP? Oh, and + isn&#39;t supported in iso646 or di/tri graphs either=
, so it&#39;s pretty much impossible currently.</div>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 11:19:52 AM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> The plan was to #define _U+ to just U+, maybe I should update the OP? Oh,
> and + isn't supported in iso646 or di/tri graphs either, so it's pretty
> much impossible currently.
>

I don't care. The existing code, while not entirely optimal, is *good
enough*. Yes, `U+ABCD` indeed is significantly shorter than `U'\uABCD'`.

But that along is not a good reason to add such a feature.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 11:19:52 AM UTC-5, bumbleb=
r...@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;m=
argin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">The plan was to #define _U+ to just U+, maybe I should update the =
OP? Oh, and + isn&#39;t supported in iso646 or di/tri graphs either, so it&=
#39;s pretty much impossible currently.</div></blockquote><div><br>I don&#3=
9;t care. The existing code, while not entirely optimal, is <i>good enough<=
/i>. Yes, `U+ABCD` indeed is significantly shorter than `U&#39;\uABCD&#39;`=
..<br><br>But that along is not a good reason to add such a feature.<br></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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It's an unreadable mess at best.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">It&#39;s an unreadable mess at best.</div>

<p></p>

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Also, It's incredibly ironic that the minus symbol is supported, but not
the plus symbol.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Also, It&#39;s incredibly ironic that the minus symbol is =
supported, but not the plus symbol.</div>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 11:35:16 AM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> It's an unreadable mess at best.
>

That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But if you want to make a
change to the C++ language, you'll need better motivation than this.

I'm sure that for people who deal in Unicode codepoints *constantly*, the
language can be unwieldy. But since a macro is perfectly capable of
resolving that problem for that relatively small set of users, I see no
need to add a new type of literal to the language just for them.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 11:35:16 AM UTC-5, bumbleb=
r...@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;m=
argin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">It&#39;s an unreadable mess at best.</div></blockquote><div><br>Th=
at&#39;s your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But if you want to make a=
 change to the C++ language, you&#39;ll need better motivation than this.<b=
r><br>I&#39;m sure that for people who deal in Unicode codepoints <i>consta=
ntly</i>, the language can be unwieldy. But since a macro is perfectly capa=
ble of resolving that problem for that relatively small set of users, I see=
 no need to add a new type of literal to the language just for them.<br></d=
iv></div>

<p></p>

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I literally just explained the problem with a macro to you.

The + symbol can not be part of a Macro's name. the preprocessor literally
doesn't allow that.

When the tokenizer reads the "#define U+ 0x" line, it takes the + symbol to
be the addition operator between U (the macro's name to the preprocessor)
 and 0x, an undefined number.

Without language support, it will not work.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I literally just explained the problem with a macro to you=
..<div><br></div><div>The + symbol can not be part of a Macro&#39;s name. th=
e preprocessor literally doesn&#39;t allow that.</div><div><br></div><div>W=
hen the tokenizer reads the &quot;#define U+ 0x&quot; line, it takes the + =
symbol to be the addition operator between U (the macro&#39;s name to the p=
reprocessor) =C2=A0and 0x, an undefined number.</div><div><br></div><div>Wi=
thout language support, it will not work.</div></div>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:42:20 PM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> I literally just explained the problem with a macro to you.
>
> The + symbol can not be part of a Macro's name. the preprocessor literally
> doesn't allow that.
>

But you could use `U_`. The problem you're trying to solve is that the
current syntax is unwieldy. The solution doesn't *have* to be "U+".

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:42:20 PM UTC-5, bumbleb=
r...@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;m=
argin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">I literally just explained the problem with a macro to you.<div><b=
r></div><div>The + symbol can not be part of a Macro&#39;s name. the prepro=
cessor literally doesn&#39;t allow that.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>B=
ut you could use `U_`. The problem you&#39;re trying to solve is that the c=
urrent syntax is unwieldy. The solution doesn&#39;t <i>have</i> to be &quot=
;U+&quot;.</div></div>

<p></p>

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That's true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codepoints in
every single language except C and C++

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<div dir=3D"ltr">That&#39;s true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent U=
nicode codepoints in every single language except C and C++</div>

<p></p>

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And now, 12 piecemeal posts in, we have something approaching a rationale.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">And now, 12 piecemeal posts in, we have something approach=
ing a rationale.<br></div>

<p></p>

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Yeah, sorry guys this is my first time submitting a language feature
proposal.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yeah, sorry guys this is my first time submitting a langua=
ge feature proposal.</div>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:51:18 PM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> That's true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codepoints in
> every single language except C and C++
>

That might be a rationale if it were true.

But it isn't. Let's take a quick survey of programming languages and how to
declare a Unicode codepoint:

Swift
<https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swift_Programming_Language/StringsAndCharacters.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40014097-CH7-ID295>:
"\u{1F496}" This gets a string rather than a character.

Go <https://golang.org/ref/spec#Rune_literals>: '\u12e4'

Java: I'm not a Java expert, but my light Googling skills seem to reveal
that there is no codepoint type in Java. `char` and `Character` both
represent UTF-16 code *units*. They just use a regular 32-bit integer for
codepoitns. So the closest you'll get is `0x12E4`. You can of course get a
string literal containing a codepoint: "\u1F496".

C#: Similar to Java.

*Not one of these languages* permits `U+XXXXXXXX` syntax for naming a
codepoint. "U+XX" is the common way to name a codepoint by value in *text*,
not in actual programming languages.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 12:51:18 PM UTC-5, bumbleb=
r...@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;m=
argin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">That&#39;s true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode c=
odepoints in every single language except C and C++</div></blockquote><div>=
<br>That might be a rationale if it were true.<br><br>But it isn&#39;t. Let=
&#39;s take a quick survey of programming languages and how to declare a Un=
icode codepoint:<br><br><a href=3D"https://developer.apple.com/library/cont=
ent/documentation/Swift/Conceptual/Swift_Programming_Language/StringsAndCha=
racters.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40014097-CH7-ID295">Swift</a>: &quot;\u{=
1F496}&quot; This gets a string rather than a character.<br><br><a href=3D"=
https://golang.org/ref/spec#Rune_literals">Go</a>: &#39;\u12e4&#39;<br><br>=
Java: I&#39;m not a Java expert, but my light Googling skills seem to revea=
l that there is no codepoint type in Java. `char` and `Character` both repr=
esent UTF-16 code <i>units</i>. They just use a regular 32-bit integer for =
codepoitns. So the closest you&#39;ll get is `0x12E4`. You can of course ge=
t a string literal containing a codepoint: &quot;\u1F496&quot;.<br><br>C#: =
Similar to Java.<br><br><i>Not one of these languages</i> permits `U+XXXXXX=
XX` syntax for naming a codepoint. &quot;U+XX&quot; is the common way to na=
me a codepoint by value in <i>text</i>, not in actual programming languages=
..<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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On 01/07/17 20:51, bumblebritches57@gmail.com wrote:
> That's true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codepoints
> in every single language except C and C++

No, it's not.

Python:

 >>> "\N{GREEK CAPITAL LETTER DELTA}"  # Using the character name
'\u0394'
 >>> "\u0394"                          # Using a 16-bit hex value
'\u0394'
 >>> "\U00000394"                      # Using a 32-bit hex value
'\u0394'

https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html


Ruby:

\unnnn  Unicode code point U+nnnn (Ruby 1.9 and later)
\u{nnnnn}  Unicode code point U+nnnnn with more than four hex digits=20
must be enclosed in curly braces

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ruby_Programming/Syntax/Literals


D:

EscapeSequence:
[...]
     \u HexDigit HexDigit HexDigit HexDigit
     \U HexDigit HexDigit HexDigit HexDigit HexDigit HexDigit HexDigit=20
HexDigit
[...]

https://dlang.org/spec/lex.html


Java:

'\u03a9'

https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se7/html/jls-3.html#jls-3.10.4


JavaScript:

\uXXXX  The Unicode character specified by the four hexadecimal digits=20
XXXX. For example, \u00A9 is the Unicode sequence for the copyright=20
symbol. See Unicode escape sequences.
\u{XXXXX}  Unicode code point escapes. For example, \u{2F804} is the=20
same as the simple Unicode escapes \uD87E\uDC04.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Guide/Grammar_and_t=
ypes#String_literals


PHP:

\u{[0-9A-Fa-f]+}  the sequence of characters matching the regular=20
expression is a Unicode codepoint, which will be output to the string as=20
that codepoint's UTF-8 representation (added in PHP 7.0.0)

http://php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php


Perl:

"\x{1d45b}"

http://www.perl.com/pub/2012/04/perlunicook-unicode-literals-by-number.html


Bash:

\0nn
\xnn

http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/escapingsection.html


VB.NET:

Seems to be no immediate way to escape Unicode literals, but here is a=20
workaround:

ChrW(&H25B2)

http://stackoverflow.com/a/3144774/4636534


C#:

'\u0066'

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa664669(v=3Dvs.71).aspx


FreePascal:

const
   HalfNoteString =3D UnicodeString(#$D834#$DD5E);

http://stackoverflow.com/a/6963182/4636534


Common Lisp:

#\=CE=BB                  ; =3D> #\GREEK_SMALL_LETTER_LAMDA
#\u03BB              ; =3D> #\GREEK_SMALL_LETTER_LAMDA

https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/common-lisp/


In fact, is there a single language that uses the U+nnnn notation=20
directly? I'd say, some variation of \unnnn notation if the most widespread=
..

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Except Swift, Go, and most of the other languages on the list are based on
or inspired by C++.

That's like saying we shouldn't do X in fortran because C doesn't support
it. Who cares? how is it relevant?

Also, the Unicode standard themselves uses the U+ prefix, who should we
given a bit more weight.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Except Swift, Go, and most of the other languages on the l=
ist are based on or inspired by C++.<div><br></div><div>That&#39;s like say=
ing we shouldn&#39;t do X in fortran because C doesn&#39;t support it. Who =
cares? how is it relevant?</div><div><br></div><div>Also, the Unicode stand=
ard themselves uses the U+ prefix, who should we given a bit more weight.</=
div></div>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:14:02 PM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
> Except Swift, Go, and most of the other languages on the list are based on
> or inspired by C++.
>
> That's like saying we shouldn't do X in fortran because C doesn't support
> it. Who cares? how is it relevant?
>

It's relevant because you claimed that "U+ is THE standard way to represent
Unicode codepoints *in every single language except C and C++*". That was
your justification for the feature: that other languages have it. That
justification is not true, and therefore your feature has no justification.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:14:02 PM UTC-5, bumblebr=
....@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;ma=
rgin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Except Swift, Go, and most of the other languages on the list are =
based on or inspired by C++.<div><br></div><div>That&#39;s like saying we s=
houldn&#39;t do X in fortran because C doesn&#39;t support it. Who cares? h=
ow is it relevant?</div></div></blockquote><div><br>It&#39;s relevant becau=
se you claimed that &quot;U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codep=
oints <b>in every single language except C and C++</b>&quot;. That was your=
 justification for the feature: that other languages have it. That justific=
ation is not true, and therefore your feature has no justification.</div></=
div>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:18:30 PM UTC-5, Nicol Bolas wrote:
>
> On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:14:02 PM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>>
>> Except Swift, Go, and most of the other languages on the list are based
>> on or inspired by C++.
>>
>> That's like saying we shouldn't do X in fortran because C doesn't support
>> it. Who cares? how is it relevant?
>>
>
> It's relevant because you claimed that "U+ is THE standard way to
> represent Unicode codepoints *in every single language except C and C++*".
> That was your justification for the feature: that other languages have it.
> That justification is not true, and therefore your feature has no
> justification.
>

I did go a bit far with that part you're right, but frankly I don't care
how other languages do it (especially when they inherited exactly what
we're talking about right now. circular reasoning much?)

The STANDARD uses U+ almost exclusively, the pdf is right
here: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode9.0.0/UnicodeStandard-9.0.pdf

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:18:30 PM UTC-5, =
Nicol Bolas wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;marg=
in-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:14:02 PM UTC-5, <a>bumblebr...@gmail=
..com</a> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-l=
eft:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Exc=
ept Swift, Go, and most of the other languages on the list are based on or =
inspired by C++.<div><br></div><div>That&#39;s like saying we shouldn&#39;t=
 do X in fortran because C doesn&#39;t support it. Who cares? how is it rel=
evant?</div></div></blockquote><div><br>It&#39;s relevant because you claim=
ed that &quot;U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codepoints <b>in =
every single language except C and C++</b>&quot;. That was your justificati=
on for the feature: that other languages have it. That justification is not=
 true, and therefore your feature has no justification.</div></div></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>I did go a bit far with that part you&#39;re right=
, but frankly I don&#39;t care how other languages do it (especially when t=
hey inherited exactly what we&#39;re talking about right now. circular reas=
oning much?)</div><div><br></div><div>The STANDARD uses U+ almost exclusive=
ly, the pdf is right here:=C2=A0http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode9.0.=
0/UnicodeStandard-9.0.pdf</div></div>

<p></p>

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On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:21:20 PM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:18:30 PM UTC-5, Nicol Bolas wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:14:02 PM UTC-5, bumblebr...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Except Swift, Go, and most of the other languages on the list are based
>>> on or inspired by C++.
>>>
>>> That's like saying we shouldn't do X in fortran because C doesn't
>>> support it. Who cares? how is it relevant?
>>>
>>
>> It's relevant because you claimed that "U+ is THE standard way to
>> represent Unicode codepoints *in every single language except C and C++*".
>> That was your justification for the feature: that other languages have it.
>> That justification is not true, and therefore your feature has no
>> justification.
>>
>
> I did go a bit far with that part you're right, but frankly I don't care
> how other languages do it (especially when they inherited exactly what
> we're talking about right now. circular reasoning much?)
>
> The STANDARD uses U+ almost exclusively, the pdf is right here:
> http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode9.0.0/UnicodeStandard-9.0.pdf
>

The thing you're not getting is this: the fact that U+ is how the Unicode
standard names codepoints is *not good enough* of a reason to make such a
change to C++. Currently, we have a perfectly adequate solution for how to
specify a codepoint. Therefore, your justification needs to demonstrate the
following:

1) That our present solution is inadequate for the needs of a significant
number of C++ programmers.

2) That "U+" syntax is *significantly* better than existing alternatives.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:21:20 PM UTC-5, =
bumblebr...@gmail.com wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:18:30 PM UTC-5, Ni=
col Bolas wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-=
left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">On=
 Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:14:02 PM UTC-5, <a>bumblebr...@gmail.com</a=
> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Except Swi=
ft, Go, and most of the other languages on the list are based on or inspire=
d by C++.<div><br></div><div>That&#39;s like saying we shouldn&#39;t do X i=
n fortran because C doesn&#39;t support it. Who cares? how is it relevant?<=
/div></div></blockquote><div><br>It&#39;s relevant because you claimed that=
 &quot;U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codepoints <b>in every s=
ingle language except C and C++</b>&quot;. That was your justification for =
the feature: that other languages have it. That justification is not true, =
and therefore your feature has no justification.</div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>I did go a bit far with that part you&#39;re right, but f=
rankly I don&#39;t care how other languages do it (especially when they inh=
erited exactly what we&#39;re talking about right now. circular reasoning m=
uch?)</div><div><br></div><div>The STANDARD uses U+ almost exclusively, the=
 pdf is right here:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode=
9.0.0/UnicodeStandard-9.0.pdf" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedo=
wn=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.unic=
ode.org%2Fversions%2FUnicode9.0.0%2FUnicodeStandard-9.0.pdf\x26sa\x3dD\x26s=
ntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFQBgui-AxNl5TEZIzZ0TK2N_ZRFg&#39;;return true;" on=
click=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.u=
nicode.org%2Fversions%2FUnicode9.0.0%2FUnicodeStandard-9.0.pdf\x26sa\x3dD\x=
26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFQBgui-AxNl5TEZIzZ0TK2N_ZRFg&#39;;return true;"=
>http://www.unicode.org/<wbr>versions/Unicode9.0.0/<wbr>UnicodeStandard-9.0=
..pdf</a></div></div></blockquote><div><br>The thing you&#39;re not getting =
is this: the fact that U+ is how the Unicode standard names codepoints is <=
i>not good enough</i> of a reason to make such a change to C++. Currently, =
we have a perfectly adequate solution for how to specify a codepoint. There=
fore, your justification needs to demonstrate the following:<br><br>1) That=
 our present solution is inadequate for the needs of a significant number o=
f C++ programmers.<br><br>2) That &quot;U+&quot; syntax is <i>significantly=
</i> better than existing alternatives.<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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Talk of the Unicode Standard seems of limited utility when we're talking
about (A) mere notation, not behaviour and (B) notation that directly
conflicts with current parsing and conventions in C++. Even if the wording
in the Standard says something, that doesn't mean the language should or
can bend its own established syntax to accommodate that notation, in a way
that would be confusing to many. As long as the observable behaviour of the
final program doesn't contradict the Standard, I don't really see an issue.

(As an aside, the Unicode Standard occasionally does things like saying the
character to use in contractions is the single right quote mark, not,
y'know, an actual apostrophe... so I give it a healthy dose of scepticism.)

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Talk of the Unicode Standard seems of limited utility=
 when we&#39;re talking about (A) mere notation, not behaviour and (B) nota=
tion that directly conflicts with current parsing and conventions in C++. E=
ven if the wording in the Standard says something, that doesn&#39;t mean th=
e language should or can bend its own established syntax to accommodate tha=
t notation, in a way that would be confusing to many. As long as the observ=
able behaviour of the final program doesn&#39;t contradict the Standard, I =
don&#39;t really see an issue.</div><div><br></div>(As an aside, the Unicod=
e Standard occasionally does things like saying the character to use in con=
tractions is the single right quote mark, not, y&#39;know, an actual apostr=
ophe... so I give it a healthy dose of scepticism.)<br></div>

<p></p>

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.

Em s=C3=A1bado, 7 de janeiro de 2017, =C3=A0s 08:36:46 PST, bumblebritches5=
7@gmail.com=20
escreveu:
> Also, It's incredibly ironic that the minus symbol is supported, but not
> the plus symbol.

The minus symbol is not supported. The underscore symbol is.

--=20
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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.

On 2017-01-07 12:51, bumblebritches57@gmail.com wrote:
> That's true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codepoints in
> every single language except C and C++

Let's ignore whether or not this is true for a moment.

You are proposing:

  auto x = U+1234; // equivalent to U'\u1234'

But...

  auto U = 5;
  auto x = U+1234; // had better be 1239

This is just not going to work; reserving `U` as a keyword is not going
to happen, and that would be the only conceivable way that the meaning
of `U+` could be changed from its current meaning, which is an
identifier and an operator.

I think a better idea would be to have either `U` or `_U` as a literal
suffix. I believe the second can be a UDL, and is the same amount of typing.

--
Matthew

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On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 11:41:48 AM UTC-5, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>
> On 2017-01-07 12:51, bumblebr...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote:
> > That's true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode codepoints
> in
> > every single language except C and C++
>
> Let's ignore whether or not this is true for a moment.
>
> You are proposing:
>
>   auto x = U+1234; // equivalent to U'\u1234'
>
> But...
>
>   auto U = 5;
>   auto x = U+1234; // had better be 1239
>
> This is just not going to work; reserving `U` as a keyword is not going
> to happen, and that would be the only conceivable way that the meaning
> of `U+` could be changed from its current meaning, which is an
> identifier and an operator.
>
> I think a better idea would be to have either `U` or `_U` as a literal
> suffix. I believe the second can be a UDL, and is the same amount of
> typing.
>

In order to do that, you'd have to explicitly use a `0x` prefix for
hexadecimal. That way, the compiler can tell the difference between the
identifier `ABCD_U` and the literal `0xABCD_U`. And I'd say that you want
that underscore, since `0xABCDU` just looks weird (though functional for
parsing purposes).

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 11:41:48 AM UTC-5, Matthew W=
oehlke wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-le=
ft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 2017-01-07 12:=
51, <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"NN97=
LfynBQAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;=
;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">b=
umblebr...@gmail.com</a> wrote:
<br>&gt; That&#39;s true, but U+ is THE standard way to represent Unicode c=
odepoints in=20
<br>&gt; every single language except C and C++
<br>
<br>Let&#39;s ignore whether or not this is true for a moment.
<br>
<br>You are proposing:
<br>
<br>=C2=A0 auto x =3D U+1234; // equivalent to U&#39;\u1234&#39;
<br>
<br>But...
<br>
<br>=C2=A0 auto U =3D 5;
<br>=C2=A0 auto x =3D U+1234; // had better be 1239
<br>
<br>This is just not going to work; reserving `U` as a keyword is not going
<br>to happen, and that would be the only conceivable way that the meaning
<br>of `U+` could be changed from its current meaning, which is an
<br>identifier and an operator.
<br>
<br>I think a better idea would be to have either `U` or `_U` as a literal
<br>suffix. I believe the second can be a UDL, and is the same amount of ty=
ping.<br></blockquote><div><br>In order to do that, you&#39;d have to expli=
citly use a `0x` prefix for hexadecimal. That way, the compiler can tell th=
e difference between the identifier `ABCD_U` and the literal `0xABCD_U`. An=
d I&#39;d say that you want that underscore, since `0xABCDU` just looks wei=
rd (though functional for parsing purposes).<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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On segunda-feira, 9 de janeiro de 2017 11:41:32 PST Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> I think a better idea would be to have either `U` or `_U` as a literal
> suffix. I believe the second can be a UDL, and is the same amount of typing.

U suffix is already in use and has been since the 1970s.

 1234U

--
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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