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Hi ISO C++,

I have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was wondering
if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.

For the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I call
"BB++" because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn't yet have such
as:
- to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;
- to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes
- to overload 'operator .'
- to use 'auto' for member variables instead of 'decltype'
- to add metadata of the classes in order to propagate the proxy associated
to the pointers within those classes

The homepage of my project is:
https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp

And I have a 17 minutes presentation available here:
https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg

Please let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in.
The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted
that Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.

Sincerely,
-Phil
https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi ISO C++,
<br>
<br><p style=3D"color: rgb(43, 46, 47); font-family: &quot;Lucida Sans Unic=
ode&quot;, &quot;Lucida Grande&quot;, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-siz=
e: 14px; line-height: 22px; margin-top: 15px; margin-bottom: 15px;" dir=3D"=
auto">I
 have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was=20
wondering if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.</p><p style=
=3D"color: rgb(43, 46, 47); font-family: &quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;, &=
quot;Lucida Grande&quot;, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; lin=
e-height: 22px; margin-top: 15px; margin-bottom: 15px;" dir=3D"auto">For
 the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I call=20
&quot;BB++&quot; because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn&#39;t y=
et have=20
such as:<br>- to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;<br>- =
to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes<br>- to ov=
erload &#39;operator .&#39;<br>- to use &#39;auto&#39; for member variables=
 instead of &#39;decltype&#39;<br>- to add metadata of the classes in order=
 to propagate the proxy associated to the pointers within those classes</p>=
<p style=3D"color: rgb(43, 46, 47); font-family: &quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&=
quot;, &quot;Lucida Grande&quot;, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
4px; line-height: 22px; margin-top: 15px; margin-bottom: 15px;" dir=3D"auto=
">The homepage of my project is:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/philippeb=
8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp" rel=3D"nofollow noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp</a></p><p style=
=3D"color: rgb(43, 46, 47); font-family: &quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;, &=
quot;Lucida Grande&quot;, Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; lin=
e-height: 22px; margin-top: 15px; margin-bottom: 15px;" dir=3D"auto">And I =
have a 17 minutes presentation available here:<br><a href=3D"https://youtu.=
be/GrNDYWyasxg" rel=3D"nofollow noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://youtu=
..be/GrNDYWyasxg</a></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(43, 46, 47); font-family: &qu=
ot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;, &quot;Lucida Grande&quot;, Tahoma, Verdana, s=
ans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; margin-top: 15px; margin-bot=
tom: 15px;" dir=3D"auto">Please
 let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in.
 The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted th=
at Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.</p>
<br>Sincerely,
<br>-Phil
<br><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://github.com/philippeb=
8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp">https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/=
bb++/bbpp2cpp</a>=C2=A0<br></div>

<p></p>

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.

On Friday, 4 August 2017 13:07:31 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> I have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was wondering
> if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.

To be clear to the rest of the mailing list: the allocator is not
deterministic. Only deallocation is deterministic -- as in, it's not a garbage
collection.

--
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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.

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On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-7, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>
> Hi ISO C++,=20
>
> I have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was wonderin=
g=20
> if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.
>
> For the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I call=
=20
> "BB++" because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn't yet have such=
=20
> as:
> - to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;
> - to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes
> - to overload 'operator .'
> - to use 'auto' for member variables instead of 'decltype'
> - to add metadata of the classes in order to propagate the proxy=20
> associated to the pointers within those classes
>
> The homepage of my project is:
> https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp
>
> And I have a 17 minutes presentation available here:
> https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg
>
> Please let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in.=
=20
> The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted=
=20
> that Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.
>

It would help if you could edit down that YouTube video to cut all the dead=
=20
air; it's 17 minutes of which the relevant 5 minutes is scattered around=20
separated by painful silent sections. Even at 200% playback speed, it's a=
=20
slog.
Certainly for your present purposes, *nothing* prior to 6m22s is relevant.=
=20
(Anyone who cares already knows how mark-and-sweep and refcounting work,=20
and doesn't need a tutorial on the subject.)

You never show code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the=20
usage example and caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what Herb=
=20
Sutter called a "deferred_heap" at CppCon 2016.
https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers/4=
183
Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea; and there are=
=20
plenty of hybrids, such as "local arena allocators", or mixing in a bit of=
=20
refcounting to get Objective-C's "autorelease pools", or mixing in a bit of=
=20
RCU to get "RCU domains", or whatever.

Starting around 12m45s, the examples seem to be concerned entirely with=20
showing examples of successful escape analysis =E2=80=94 that is, you creat=
e a=20
"node_proxy" (a.k.a. deferred_heap) and allocate some objects in that heap,=
=20
and then you return a pointer to one of those objects from the current=20
function. Normally this would cause dangling-pointer/use-after-free errors,=
=20
but in this case your BB++ language is doing some sort of "escape analysis"=
=20
to promote the returned object into the surrounding scope. Some explanation=
=20
of this promotion mechanism would be useful, since it's the one thing=20
that's not obvious how to do in today's C++.

my $.02,
=E2=80=93Arthur

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
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..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/da483e72-1a63-4ea1-80c4-8d63aa018db9%40isocpp.or=
g.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-7, Phil Boucha=
rd wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: =
0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi I=
SO C++,
<br><p style=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&q=
uot;,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;lin=
e-height:22px;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">I
 have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was=20
wondering if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.</p><p style=
=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;L=
ucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22p=
x;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">For
 the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I call=20
&quot;BB++&quot; because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn&#39;t y=
et have=20
such as:<br>- to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;<br>- =
to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes<br>- to ov=
erload &#39;operator .&#39;<br>- to use &#39;auto&#39; for member variables=
 instead of &#39;decltype&#39;<br>- to add metadata of the classes in order=
 to propagate the proxy associated to the pointers within those classes</p>=
<p style=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;=
,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-he=
ight:22px;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">The homepage of =
my project is:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb=
++/bbpp2cpp" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D=
&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fphilippeb8%=
2Froot_ptr%2Ftree%2Fbb%2B%2B%2Fbbpp2cpp\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dA=
FQjCNHBbjhv9Q67kOU4n9m2hXdw8tBNUg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=
=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fphilippe=
b8%2Froot_ptr%2Ftree%2Fbb%2B%2B%2Fbbpp2cpp\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x=
3dAFQjCNHBbjhv9Q67kOU4n9m2hXdw8tBNUg&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/=
philippeb8/<wbr>root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp</a></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(43=
,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;Lucida Grande&quo=
t;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin-top:15p=
x;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">And I have a 17 minutes presentation ava=
ilable here:<br><a href=3D"https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg" rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyas=
xg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://youtu.be/GrNDYWya=
sxg&#39;;return true;">https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg</a></p><p style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;Lucida Gr=
ande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin=
-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">Please
 let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in.
 The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted th=
at Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.</p></d=
iv></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It would help if you could edit down th=
at YouTube video to cut all the dead air; it&#39;s 17 minutes of which the =
relevant 5 minutes is scattered around separated by painful silent sections=
.. Even at 200% playback speed, it&#39;s a slog.</div><div>Certainly for you=
r present purposes, <i>nothing</i> prior to 6m22s is relevant. (Anyone who =
cares already knows how mark-and-sweep and refcounting work, and doesn&#39;=
t need a tutorial on the subject.)</div><div><br></div><div>You never show =
code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the usage example and =
caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what Herb Sutter called a &qu=
ot;deferred_heap&quot; at CppCon 2016.</div><div><a href=3D"https://interna=
ls.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers/4183">https://in=
ternals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers/4183</a><br=
></div><div>Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea; a=
nd there are plenty of hybrids, such as &quot;local arena allocators&quot;,=
 or mixing in a bit of refcounting to get Objective-C&#39;s &quot;autorelea=
se pools&quot;, or mixing in a bit of RCU to get &quot;RCU domains&quot;, o=
r whatever.</div><div><br></div><div>Starting around 12m45s, the examples s=
eem to be concerned entirely with showing examples of successful escape ana=
lysis =E2=80=94 that is, you create a &quot;node_proxy&quot; (a.k.a. deferr=
ed_heap) and allocate some objects in that heap, and then you return a poin=
ter to one of those objects from the current function. Normally this would =
cause dangling-pointer/use-after-free errors, but in this case your BB++ la=
nguage is doing some sort of &quot;escape analysis&quot; to promote the ret=
urned object into the surrounding scope. Some explanation of this promotion=
 mechanism would be useful, since it&#39;s the one thing that&#39;s not obv=
ious how to do in today&#39;s C++.</div><div><br></div><div>my $.02,</div><=
div>=E2=80=93Arthur</div></div>

<p></p>

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40isocpp.org?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.=
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%40isocpp.org</a>.<br />

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On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 6:40:45 PM UTC-4, Arthur O'Dwyer wrote:
>
> On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-7, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>
>> Hi ISO C++,=20
>>
>> I have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was=20
>> wondering if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.
>>
>> For the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I cal=
l=20
>> "BB++" because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn't yet have suc=
h=20
>> as:
>> - to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;
>> - to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes
>> - to overload 'operator .'
>> - to use 'auto' for member variables instead of 'decltype'
>> - to add metadata of the classes in order to propagate the proxy=20
>> associated to the pointers within those classes
>>
>> The homepage of my project is:
>> https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp
>>
>> And I have a 17 minutes presentation available here:
>> https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg
>>
>> Please let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in=
..=20
>> The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted=
=20
>> that Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.
>>
>
> It would help if you could edit down that YouTube video to cut all the=20
> dead air; it's 17 minutes of which the relevant 5 minutes is scattered=20
> around separated by painful silent sections. Even at 200% playback speed,=
=20
> it's a slog.
> Certainly for your present purposes, *nothing* prior to 6m22s is=20
> relevant. (Anyone who cares already knows how mark-and-sweep and=20
> refcounting work, and doesn't need a tutorial on the subject.)
>

Thanks I'll make the corrections this weekend.=20
=20

> You never show code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the=
=20
> usage example and caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what Herb=
=20
> Sutter called a "deferred_heap" at CppCon 2016.
>
> https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers=
/4183
> Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea; and there=
=20
> are plenty of hybrids, such as "local arena allocators", or mixing in a b=
it=20
> of refcounting to get Objective-C's "autorelease pools", or mixing in a b=
it=20
> of RCU to get "RCU domains", or whatever.
>

Firstly I would like to point out that I came up with the idea long before=
=20
Microsoft did (2011 actually). You can easily find references to my=20
previous attempts in the development Boost mailing list. Back in the days=
=20
my library was called: "block_ptr" and "shifted_ptr".=20

Secondly deferred_ptr is not production ready and doesn't support=20
multithreading mode whereas root_ptr was correctly unit tested and it does=
=20
support multithreading mode but I just need to optimize one mutex (that is=
=20
currently a static member) to make it even faster.=20

=20

> Starting around 12m45s, the examples seem to be concerned entirely with=
=20
> showing examples of successful escape analysis =E2=80=94 that is, you cre=
ate a=20
> "node_proxy" (a.k.a. deferred_heap) and allocate some objects in that hea=
p,=20
> and then you return a pointer to one of those objects from the current=20
> function. Normally this would cause dangling-pointer/use-after-free error=
s,=20
> but in this case your BB++ language is doing some sort of "escape analysi=
s"=20
> to promote the returned object into the surrounding scope. Some explanati=
on=20
> of this promotion mechanism would be useful, since it's the one thing=20
> that's not obvious how to do in today's C++.
>


I will clarify what is currently happening at that moment in my next video.=
=20
Thanks for your patience.


Regards,
-Phil=20

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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g.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 6:40:45 PM UTC-4, Art=
hur O&#39;Dwyer wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;=
margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-7, Phil Bouchard wrote=
:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi ISO C++,
<br><p style=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&q=
uot;,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;lin=
e-height:22px;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">I
 have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was=20
wondering if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.</p><p style=
=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;L=
ucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22p=
x;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">For
 the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I call=20
&quot;BB++&quot; because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn&#39;t y=
et have=20
such as:<br>- to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;<br>- =
to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes<br>- to ov=
erload &#39;operator .&#39;<br>- to use &#39;auto&#39; for member variables=
 instead of &#39;decltype&#39;<br>- to add metadata of the classes in order=
 to propagate the proxy associated to the pointers within those classes</p>=
<p style=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;=
,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-he=
ight:22px;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">The homepage of =
my project is:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb=
++/bbpp2cpp" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D=
&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fphilippeb8%=
2Froot_ptr%2Ftree%2Fbb%2B%2B%2Fbbpp2cpp\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dA=
FQjCNHBbjhv9Q67kOU4n9m2hXdw8tBNUg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=
=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fphilippe=
b8%2Froot_ptr%2Ftree%2Fbb%2B%2B%2Fbbpp2cpp\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x=
3dAFQjCNHBbjhv9Q67kOU4n9m2hXdw8tBNUg&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/=
philippeb8/<wbr>root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp</a></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(43=
,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;Lucida Grande&quo=
t;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin-top:15p=
x;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">And I have a 17 minutes presentation ava=
ilable here:<br><a href=3D"https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg" rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyas=
xg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://youtu.be/GrNDYWya=
sxg&#39;;return true;">https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg</a></p><p style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;Lucida Gr=
ande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin=
-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">Please
 let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in.
 The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted th=
at Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.</p></d=
iv></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It would help if you could edit down th=
at YouTube video to cut all the dead air; it&#39;s 17 minutes of which the =
relevant 5 minutes is scattered around separated by painful silent sections=
.. Even at 200% playback speed, it&#39;s a slog.</div><div>Certainly for you=
r present purposes, <i>nothing</i> prior to 6m22s is relevant. (Anyone who =
cares already knows how mark-and-sweep and refcounting work, and doesn&#39;=
t need a tutorial on the subject.)</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>Thanks I&#39;ll make the corrections this weekend.=C2=A0<br></div><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-lef=
t: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div>You never show code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the=
 usage example and caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what Herb =
Sutter called a &quot;deferred_heap&quot; at CppCon 2016.</div><div><a href=
=3D"https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointe=
rs/4183" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39=
;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Finternals.rust-lang.org%2Ft%=
2Fherb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers%2F4183\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x2=
6usg\x3dAFQjCNFDgDPIjrcdGQg_Xmfpsrn_6z2FRg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"th=
is.href=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Finternals.rust=
-lang.org%2Ft%2Fherb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers%2F4183\x26sa\x3dD\x=
26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFDgDPIjrcdGQg_Xmfpsrn_6z2FRg&#39;;return true;"=
>https://internals.rust-lang.<wbr>org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-<wbr>heaps-and=
-pointers/4183</a><br></div><div>Of course everyone has their own implement=
ation of this idea; and there are plenty of hybrids, such as &quot;local ar=
ena allocators&quot;, or mixing in a bit of refcounting to get Objective-C&=
#39;s &quot;autorelease pools&quot;, or mixing in a bit of RCU to get &quot=
;RCU domains&quot;, or whatever.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v>Firstly I would like to point out that I came up with the idea long=20
before Microsoft did (2011 actually). You can easily find references to=20
my previous attempts in the development Boost mailing list. Back in the=20
days my library was called: &quot;block_ptr&quot; and &quot;shifted_ptr&quo=
t;.
<br>
<br>Secondly deferred_ptr is not production ready and doesn&#39;t support=
=20
multithreading mode whereas root_ptr was correctly unit tested and it=20
does support multithreading mode but I just need to optimize one mutex=20
(that is currently a static member) to make it even faster.=C2=A0<br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Starting around 12m45s, the examples seem to be con=
cerned entirely with showing examples of successful escape analysis =E2=80=
=94 that is, you create a &quot;node_proxy&quot; (a.k.a. deferred_heap) and=
 allocate some objects in that heap, and then you return a pointer to one o=
f those objects from the current function. Normally this would cause dangli=
ng-pointer/use-after-<wbr>free errors, but in this case your BB++ language =
is doing some sort of &quot;escape analysis&quot; to promote the returned o=
bject into the surrounding scope. Some explanation of this promotion mechan=
ism would be useful, since it&#39;s the one thing that&#39;s not obvious ho=
w to do in today&#39;s C++.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br=
></div><div>I will clarify what is currently happening at that moment in my=
 next video. Thanks for your patience.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><=
div>Regards,</div><div>-Phil=C2=A0</div></div>

<p></p>

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40isocpp.org?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.=
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------=_Part_1411_1379060365.1501906526671--

------=_Part_1410_995564218.1501906526670--

.

On 08/04/2017 06:40 PM, Arthur O'Dwyer wrote:
> On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-7, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>=20
>     Hi ISO C++,
>=20
>     I have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was
>     wondering if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.
>=20
>     For the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I
>     call "BB++" because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn't yet
>     have such as:
>     - to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;
>     - to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes
>     - to overload 'operator .'
>     - to use 'auto' for member variables instead of 'decltype'
>     - to add metadata of the classes in order to propagate the proxy
>     associated to the pointers within those classes
>=20
>     The homepage of my project is:
>     https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp
>     <https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp>
>=20
>     And I have a 17 minutes presentation available here:
>     https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg
>=20
>     Please let me know if this is the type of research you are
>     interested in. The work is a step away from being production ready.
>     It has to be noted that Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr
>     in multithreaded mode.
>=20
>=20
> It would help if you could edit down that YouTube video to cut all the=20
> dead air; it's 17 minutes of which the relevant 5 minutes is scattered=20
> around separated by painful silent sections. Even at 200% playback=20
> speed, it's a slog.
> Certainly for your present purposes, /nothing/ prior to 6m22s is=20
> relevant. (Anyone who cares already knows how mark-and-sweep and=20
> refcounting work, and doesn't need a tutorial on the subject.)

Thanks I'll make the corrections this weekend.

> You never show code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the=
=20
> usage example and caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what=20
> Herb Sutter called a "deferred_heap" at CppCon 2016.
> https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers=
/4183
> Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea; and there=
=20
> are plenty of hybrids, such as "local arena allocators", or mixing in a=
=20
> bit of refcounting to get Objective-C's "autorelease pools", or mixing=20
> in a bit of RCU to get "RCU domains", or whatever.

Firstly I would like to point out that I came up with the idea long=20
before Microsoft did (2011 actually). You can easily find references to=20
my previous attempts in the development Boost mailing list. Back in the=20
days my library was called: "block_ptr" and "shifted_ptr".

Secondly deferred_ptr is not production ready and doesn't support=20
multithreading mode whereas root_ptr was correctly unit tested and it=20
does support multithreading mode but I just need to optimize one mutex=20
(that is currently a static member) to make it even faster.

> Starting around 12m45s, the examples seem to be concerned entirely with=
=20
> showing examples of successful escape analysis =E2=80=94 that is, you cre=
ate a=20
> "node_proxy" (a.k.a. deferred_heap) and allocate some objects in that=20
> heap, and then you return a pointer to one of those objects from the=20
> current function. Normally this would cause=20
> dangling-pointer/use-after-free errors, but in this case your BB++=20
> language is doing some sort of "escape analysis" to promote the returned=
=20
> object into the surrounding scope. Some explanation of this promotion=20
> mechanism would be useful, since it's the one thing that's not obvious=20
> how to do in today's C++.

I will clarify what is currently happening at that moment in my next=20
video. Thanks for your patience.


Regards,
-Phil

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp=
..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/om3ev4%24hgg%241%40blaine.gmane.org.

.

------=_Part_2099_2019411126.1501983147437
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 6:40:45 PM UTC-4, Arthur O'Dwyer wrote:
>
> On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-7, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>
>> Hi ISO C++,=20
>>
>> I have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was=20
>> wondering if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.
>>
>> For the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I cal=
l=20
>> "BB++" because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn't yet have suc=
h=20
>> as:
>> - to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;
>> - to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes
>> - to overload 'operator .'
>> - to use 'auto' for member variables instead of 'decltype'
>> - to add metadata of the classes in order to propagate the proxy=20
>> associated to the pointers within those classes
>>
>> The homepage of my project is:
>> https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp
>>
>> And I have a 17 minutes presentation available here:
>> https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg
>>
>> Please let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in=
..=20
>> The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted=
=20
>> that Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.
>>
>
> It would help if you could edit down that YouTube video to cut all the=20
> dead air; it's 17 minutes of which the relevant 5 minutes is scattered=20
> around separated by painful silent sections. Even at 200% playback speed,=
=20
> it's a slog.
> Certainly for your present purposes, *nothing* prior to 6m22s is=20
> relevant. (Anyone who cares already knows how mark-and-sweep and=20
> refcounting work, and doesn't need a tutorial on the subject.)
>
> You never show code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the=
=20
> usage example and caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what Herb=
=20
> Sutter called a "deferred_heap" at CppCon 2016.
>
> https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers=
/4183
> Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea; and there=
=20
> are plenty of hybrids, such as "local arena allocators", or mixing in a b=
it=20
> of refcounting to get Objective-C's "autorelease pools", or mixing in a b=
it=20
> of RCU to get "RCU domains", or whatever.
>
> Starting around 12m45s, the examples seem to be concerned entirely with=
=20
> showing examples of successful escape analysis =E2=80=94 that is, you cre=
ate a=20
> "node_proxy" (a.k.a. deferred_heap) and allocate some objects in that hea=
p,=20
> and then you return a pointer to one of those objects from the current=20
> function. Normally this would cause dangling-pointer/use-after-free error=
s,=20
> but in this case your BB++ language is doing some sort of "escape analysi=
s"=20
> to promote the returned object into the surrounding scope. Some explanati=
on=20
> of this promotion mechanism would be useful, since it's the one thing=20
> that's not obvious how to do in today's C++.
>

In the following video, I am explaining how objects of a lower scope are=20
being promoted to a higher scope (please fast forward to 10:15):
https://youtu.be/OBnpFUVEVe4

I added 5 slides explaining how objects are being promoted and I've=20
renarrated everything after 6:21. I'm keeping the beginning because I am=20
targeting newbies on the subject as well.

I hope that's a good explanation because sharing this information publicly=
=20
is a point of no return for me.


Sincerely,
-Phil

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp=
..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/57b118c3-5335-492e-a121-a6f149559cc4%40isocpp.or=
g.

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 6:40:45 PM UTC-4, Art=
hur O&#39;Dwyer wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;=
margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Friday, August 4, 2017 at 1:07:31 PM UTC-7, Phil Bouchard wrote=
:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi ISO C++,
<br><p style=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&q=
uot;,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;lin=
e-height:22px;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">I
 have developed a deterministic memory manager in C++ and I was=20
wondering if ISO C++ would be interested to hear more about it.</p><p style=
=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;L=
ucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22p=
x;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">For
 the moment I have included my solution in a brand new language I call=20
&quot;BB++&quot; because I need to add functionality that C++ doesn&#39;t y=
et have=20
such as:<br>- to add instances of an object implicitly as each scope;<br>- =
to add implicit references to these objects in top-level classes<br>- to ov=
erload &#39;operator .&#39;<br>- to use &#39;auto&#39; for member variables=
 instead of &#39;decltype&#39;<br>- to add metadata of the classes in order=
 to propagate the proxy associated to the pointers within those classes</p>=
<p style=3D"color:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;=
,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-he=
ight:22px;margin-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">The homepage of =
my project is:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/philippeb8/root_ptr/tree/bb=
++/bbpp2cpp" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D=
&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fphilippeb8%=
2Froot_ptr%2Ftree%2Fbb%2B%2B%2Fbbpp2cpp\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dA=
FQjCNHBbjhv9Q67kOU4n9m2hXdw8tBNUg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=
=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fphilippe=
b8%2Froot_ptr%2Ftree%2Fbb%2B%2B%2Fbbpp2cpp\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x=
3dAFQjCNHBbjhv9Q67kOU4n9m2hXdw8tBNUg&#39;;return true;">https://github.com/=
philippeb8/<wbr>root_ptr/tree/bb++/bbpp2cpp</a></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(43=
,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;Lucida Grande&quo=
t;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin-top:15p=
x;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">And I have a 17 minutes presentation ava=
ilable here:<br><a href=3D"https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg" rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyas=
xg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://youtu.be/GrNDYWya=
sxg&#39;;return true;">https://youtu.be/GrNDYWyasxg</a></p><p style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(43,46,47);font-family:&quot;Lucida Sans Unicode&quot;,&quot;Lucida Gr=
ande&quot;,Tahoma,Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;margin=
-top:15px;margin-bottom:15px" dir=3D"auto">Please
 let me know if this is the type of research you are interested in.
 The work is a step away from being production ready. It has to be noted th=
at Root.Ptr is already faster than Shared.Ptr in multithreaded mode.</p></d=
iv></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It would help if you could edit down th=
at YouTube video to cut all the dead air; it&#39;s 17 minutes of which the =
relevant 5 minutes is scattered around separated by painful silent sections=
.. Even at 200% playback speed, it&#39;s a slog.</div><div>Certainly for you=
r present purposes, <i>nothing</i> prior to 6m22s is relevant. (Anyone who =
cares already knows how mark-and-sweep and refcounting work, and doesn&#39;=
t need a tutorial on the subject.)</div><div><br></div><div>You never show =
code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the usage example and =
caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what Herb Sutter called a &qu=
ot;deferred_heap&quot; at CppCon 2016.</div><div><a href=3D"https://interna=
ls.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers/4183" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://www.google=
..com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Finternals.rust-lang.org%2Ft%2Fherb-sutter-defer=
red-heaps-and-pointers%2F4183\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFDgDP=
IjrcdGQg_Xmfpsrn_6z2FRg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http=
s://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Finternals.rust-lang.org%2Ft%2Fher=
b-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers%2F4183\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\=
x3dAFQjCNFDgDPIjrcdGQg_Xmfpsrn_6z2FRg&#39;;return true;">https://internals.=
rust-lang.<wbr>org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-<wbr>heaps-and-pointers/4183</a><=
br></div><div>Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea;=
 and there are plenty of hybrids, such as &quot;local arena allocators&quot=
;, or mixing in a bit of refcounting to get Objective-C&#39;s &quot;autorel=
ease pools&quot;, or mixing in a bit of RCU to get &quot;RCU domains&quot;,=
 or whatever.</div><div><br></div><div>Starting around 12m45s, the examples=
 seem to be concerned entirely with showing examples of successful escape a=
nalysis =E2=80=94 that is, you create a &quot;node_proxy&quot; (a.k.a. defe=
rred_heap) and allocate some objects in that heap, and then you return a po=
inter to one of those objects from the current function. Normally this woul=
d cause dangling-pointer/use-after-<wbr>free errors, but in this case your =
BB++ language is doing some sort of &quot;escape analysis&quot; to promote =
the returned object into the surrounding scope. Some explanation of this pr=
omotion mechanism would be useful, since it&#39;s the one thing that&#39;s =
not obvious how to do in today&#39;s C++.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div>In the following video, I am explaining how objects of a lower s=
cope are being promoted to a higher scope (please fast forward to 10:15):<b=
r>https://youtu.be/OBnpFUVEVe4</div><div><br></div><div>I added 5 slides ex=
plaining how objects are being promoted and I&#39;ve renarrated everything =
after 6:21. I&#39;m keeping the beginning because I am targeting newbies on=
 the subject as well.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope that&#39;s a good exp=
lanation because sharing this information publicly is a point of no return =
for me.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div>-Phil<=
/div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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.

On Saturday, 5 August 2017 18:32:27 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> I hope that's a good explanation because sharing this information publicly
> is a point of no return for me.

What do you mean by this?

--
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   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my library
gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by corporations.

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 12:04:05 AM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:
>
> On Saturday, 5 August 2017 18:32:27 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> > I hope that's a good explanation because sharing this information
> publicly
> > is a point of no return for me.
>
> What do you mean by this?
>
> --
> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Well I don&#39;t have the protection of a software patent =
and if my library gets rejected by ISO then it&#39;ll surely be plagiarized=
 by corporations.<br><br>On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 12:04:05 AM UTC-4, Th=
iago Macieira wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;ma=
rgin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Saturda=
y, 5 August 2017 18:32:27 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
<br>&gt; I hope that&#39;s a good explanation because sharing this informat=
ion publicly
<br>&gt; is a point of no return for me.
<br>
<br>What do you mean by this?
<br>
<br>--=20
<br>Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.goo=
gle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\=
x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hr=
ef=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x=
3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return t=
rue;">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.=
com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH=
GRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;=
http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1=
\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a=
>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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.

On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my library
> gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by corporations.

That's what copyright is for.

By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need to
write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.

--
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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--f40304360762fb957a055618ea88
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This is actually not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent from
a certain boost thread of the original poster. What he wants is a petent
protection, but I don't believe this idea is anywhere near being as new as
he thinks (and as would be in any sensible patent system to actually get a
patent for it).

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 PM Thiago Macieira <thiago@macieira.org> wrote:

> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> > Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my library
> > gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by corporations.
>
> That's what copyright is for.
>
> By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need to
> write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.
>
> --
> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1702971.pEYQYCCQ6l%40tjmaciei-mobl1
> .
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">This is actually not what copyright is for, though, which is=
 apparent from a certain boost thread of the original poster. What he wants=
 is a petent protection, but I don&#39;t believe this idea is anywhere near=
 being as new as he thinks (and as would be in any sensible patent system t=
o actually get a patent for it).</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 P=
M Thiago Macieira &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:thiago@macieira.org">thiago@macieir=
a.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Sunday, 6 A=
ugust 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:<br>
&gt; Well I don&#39;t have the protection of a software patent and if my li=
brary<br>
&gt; gets rejected by ISO then it&#39;ll surely be plagiarized by corporati=
ons.<br>
<br>
That&#39;s what copyright is for.<br>
<br>
By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need to=
<br>
write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://=
kde.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">kde.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center<br>
<br>
--<br>
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/d/msgid/std-proposals/1702971.pEYQYCCQ6l%40tjmaciei-mobl1</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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.

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Patent, not petent protection. Sorry, didn't catch that silly phone typo
until I've already hit send.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 PM Micha=C5=82 Dominiak <griwes@griwes.info> wrot=
e:

> This is actually not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent fro=
m
> a certain boost thread of the original poster. What he wants is a petent
> protection, but I don't believe this idea is anywhere near being as new a=
s
> he thinks (and as would be in any sensible patent system to actually get =
a
> patent for it).
>
> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 PM Thiago Macieira <thiago@macieira.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
>> > Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my librar=
y
>> > gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by corporations.
>>
>> That's what copyright is for.
>>
>> By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need
>> to
>> write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.
>>
>> --
>> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s
>> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n
>> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
>> To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1702971.pEY=
QYCCQ6l%40tjmaciei-mobl1
>> .
>>
>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">Patent, not petent protection. Sorry, didn&#39;t catch that =
silly phone typo until I&#39;ve already hit send.</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 P=
M Micha=C5=82 Dominiak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:griwes@griwes.info">griwes@gri=
wes.info</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"l=
tr">This is actually not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent f=
rom a certain boost thread of the original poster. What he wants is a peten=
t protection, but I don&#39;t believe this idea is anywhere near being as n=
ew as he thinks (and as would be in any sensible patent system to actually =
get a patent for it).</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 P=
M Thiago Macieira &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:thiago@macieira.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">thiago@macieira.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:<br>
&gt; Well I don&#39;t have the protection of a software patent and if my li=
brary<br>
&gt; gets rejected by ISO then it&#39;ll surely be plagiarized by corporati=
ons.<br>
<br>
That&#39;s what copyright is for.<br>
<br>
By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need to=
<br>
write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://=
kde.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">kde.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center<br>
<br>
--<br>
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/d/msgid/std-proposals/1702971.pEYQYCCQ6l%40tjmaciei-mobl1</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit=20
counterproductive in the software industry.

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrote:
>
> Patent, not petent protection. Sorry, didn't catch that silly phone typo=
=20
> until I've already hit send.
>
> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 PM Micha=C5=82 Dominiak <gri...@griwes.info=20
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> This is actually not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent=20
>> from a certain boost thread of the original poster. What he wants is a=
=20
>> petent protection, but I don't believe this idea is anywhere near being =
as=20
>> new as he thinks (and as would be in any sensible patent system to actua=
lly=20
>> get a patent for it).
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 PM Thiago Macieira <thi...@macieira.org=20
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>> > Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my libra=
ry
>>> > gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by corporations=
..
>>>
>>> That's what copyright is for.
>>>
>>> By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You nee=
d=20
>>> to
>>> write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>>>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20
>>> Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=
=20
>>> an email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org <javascript:>.
>>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org <javascript:>=
..
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit=20
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1702971.pE=
YQYCCQ6l%40tjmaciei-mobl1
>>> .
>>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a littl=
e bit counterproductive in the software industry.<br><br>On Sunday, August =
6, 2017 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrote:<blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p dir=3D"ltr">Patent, not petent protection. S=
orry, didn&#39;t catch that silly phone typo until I&#39;ve already hit sen=
d.</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 P=
M Micha=C5=82 Dominiak &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-ob=
fuscated-mailto=3D"vhNJoO4OBwAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=
=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascri=
pt:&#39;;return true;">gri...@griwes.info</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">This is actually not what copyright is=
 for, though, which is apparent from a certain boost thread of the original=
 poster. What he wants is a petent protection, but I don&#39;t believe this=
 idea is anywhere near being as new as he thinks (and as would be in any se=
nsible patent system to actually get a patent for it).</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 P=
M Thiago Macieira &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfusca=
ted-mailto=3D"vhNJoO4OBwAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#3=
9;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#3=
9;;return true;">thi...@macieira.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:=
<br>
&gt; Well I don&#39;t have the protection of a software patent and if my li=
brary<br>
&gt; gets rejected by ISO then it&#39;ll surely be plagiarized by corporati=
ons.<br>
<br>
That&#39;s what copyright is for.<br>
<br>
By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need to=
<br>
write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.co=
m/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQ=
jCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&=
#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x2=
6sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;">=
macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" rel=3D"nofollow"=
 target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/ur=
l?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5=
_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http:/=
/www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26us=
g\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 12:37:59 PM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:
>
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> > Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my library
> > gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by corporations.
>
> That's what copyright is for.
>
> By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need
> to
> write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.
>

Before I do write a paper, I was wondering if my presentation better
described the solution I am putting forward.


> --
> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 12:37:59 PM UTC-4, Th=
iago Macieira wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;ma=
rgin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Sunday,=
 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
<br>&gt; Well I don&#39;t have the protection of a software patent and if m=
y library
<br>&gt; gets rejected by ISO then it&#39;ll surely be plagiarized by corpo=
rations.
<br>
<br>That&#39;s what copyright is for.
<br>
<br>By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You nee=
d to=20
<br>write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.<br></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>Before I do write a paper, I was wondering i=
f my presentation better described the solution I am putting forward.</div>=
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">--=20
<br>Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.goo=
gle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\=
x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hr=
ef=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x=
3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return t=
rue;">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.=
com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH=
GRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;=
http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1=
\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a=
>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

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Use a good free software license and if your library os good enough, people
may pay you for support.

El 6 ago. 2017 2:30 p.m., "Phil Bouchard" <philippeb8@gmail.com> escribi=C3=
=B3:

> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit
> counterproductive in the software industry.
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrote=
:
>>
>> Patent, not petent protection. Sorry, didn't catch that silly phone typo
>> until I've already hit send.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 PM Micha=C5=82 Dominiak <gri...@griwes.info> w=
rote:
>>
>>> This is actually not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent
>>> from a certain boost thread of the original poster. What he wants is a
>>> petent protection, but I don't believe this idea is anywhere near being=
 as
>>> new as he thinks (and as would be in any sensible patent system to actu=
ally
>>> get a patent for it).
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 PM Thiago Macieira <thi...@macieira.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>>> > Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my
>>>> library
>>>> > gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by corporation=
s.
>>>>
>>>> That's what copyright is for.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You
>>>> need to
>>>> write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>>>>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/i=
s
>>>> ocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1702971.pEYQYCCQ6l%40tjmaciei-mobl1.
>>>>
>>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
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> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/f090ce52-3b6d-438b-
> ae87-01562a8ab6ef%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/f090ce52-3b=
6d-438b-ae87-01562a8ab6ef%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfoot=
er>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Use a good free software license and if your library os g=
ood enough, people may pay you for support.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">El 6 ago. 2017 2:30 p.m., &quot;Phil =
Bouchard&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:philippeb8@gmail.com">philippeb8@gmail=
..com</a>&gt; escribi=C3=B3:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is=
 a little bit counterproductive in the software industry.<br><br>On Sunday,=
 August 6, 2017 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Patent, not petent protection. =
Sorry, didn&#39;t catch that silly phone typo until I&#39;ve already hit se=
nd.</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 P=
M Micha=C5=82 Dominiak &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow">gri...@griwes.info</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">This is actual=
ly not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent from a certain boos=
t thread of the original poster. What he wants is a petent protection, but =
I don&#39;t believe this idea is anywhere near being as new as he thinks (a=
nd as would be in any sensible patent system to actually get a patent for i=
t).</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 P=
M Thiago Macieira &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow">thi...@macieira.org</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41=
 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:<br>
&gt; Well I don&#39;t have the protection of a software patent and if my li=
brary<br>
&gt; gets rejected by ISO then it&#39;ll surely be plagiarized by corporati=
ons.<br>
<br>
That&#39;s what copyright is for.<br>
<br>
By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need to=
<br>
write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kd=
e.org" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">kde.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center<br>
<br>
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..<br>
</blockquote></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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Thanks for your advice but my goal is to create a library that doesn't need=
=20
support ;)

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:55:43 PM UTC-4, dgutson wrote:
>
> Use a good free software license and if your library os good enough,=20
> people may pay you for support.=20
>
> El 6 ago. 2017 2:30 p.m., "Phil Bouchard" <phili...@gmail.com=20
> <javascript:>> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit=20
>> counterproductive in the software industry.
>>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrot=
e:
>>>
>>> Patent, not petent protection. Sorry, didn't catch that silly phone typ=
o=20
>>> until I've already hit send.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 PM Micha=C5=82 Dominiak <gri...@griwes.info> =
wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is actually not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent=
=20
>>>> from a certain boost thread of the original poster. What he wants is a=
=20
>>>> petent protection, but I don't believe this idea is anywhere near bein=
g as=20
>>>> new as he thinks (and as would be in any sensible patent system to act=
ually=20
>>>> get a patent for it).
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 PM Thiago Macieira <thi...@macieira.org>=20
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>>>> > Well I don't have the protection of a software patent and if my=20
>>>>> library
>>>>> > gets rejected by ISO then it'll surely be plagiarized by=20
>>>>> corporations.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what copyright is for.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You=
=20
>>>>> need to
>>>>> write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>>>>>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20
>>>>> Groups "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen=
d=20
>>>>> an email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit=20
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/1702971.=
pEYQYCCQ6l%40tjmaciei-mobl1
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>> --=20
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>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/f090ce52-3b=
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>> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/f090ce52-3=
b6d-438b-ae87-01562a8ab6ef%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfoo=
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>> .
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for your advice but my goal is to create a library =
that doesn&#39;t need support ;)<br><br>On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:55:4=
3 PM UTC-4, dgutson wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div=
 dir=3D"auto">Use a good free software license and if your library os good =
enough, people may pay you for support.=C2=A0</div><div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">El 6 ago. 2017 2:30 p.m., &quot;Phil Bouchard&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"bLIchuYQBwAJ" r=
el=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return tru=
e;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">phili...@gma=
il.com</a>&gt; escribi=C3=B3:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">And a patent, I think, takes years to get which =
is a little bit counterproductive in the software industry.<br><br>On Sunda=
y, August 6, 2017 at 1:19:39 PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrote:<blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Patent, not petent protection=
.. Sorry, didn&#39;t catch that silly phone typo until I&#39;ve already hit =
send.</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 7:18 P=
M Micha=C5=82 Dominiak &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow">gri...@griwes.info</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">This is actual=
ly not what copyright is for, though, which is apparent from a certain boos=
t thread of the original poster. What he wants is a petent protection, but =
I don&#39;t believe this idea is anywhere near being as new as he thinks (a=
nd as would be in any sensible patent system to actually get a patent for i=
t).</p>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017, 6:37 P=
M Thiago Macieira &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow">thi...@macieira.org</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Sunday, 6 August 2017 06:52:41=
 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:<br>
&gt; Well I don&#39;t have the protection of a software patent and if my li=
brary<br>
&gt; gets rejected by ISO then it&#39;ll surely be plagiarized by corporati=
ons.<br>
<br>
That&#39;s what copyright is for.<br>
<br>
By the way, ISO is not interested in importing a library as-is. You need to=
<br>
write a paper that describes what the implementation needs to do.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.co=
m/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQ=
jCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&=
#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x2=
6sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;">=
macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" rel=3D"nofollow"=
 target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/ur=
l?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5=
_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http:/=
/www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26us=
g\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>
> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit
> counterproductive in the software industry.
>

Some might argue that patents themselves are "counterproductive in the
software industry", but that is neither here nor there. This discussion
does raises an interesting question, however.

The C++ standard specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what goes
into the standard is not something that is patentable (I think?). However,
implementation techniques could be patentable, and behavior is often
informed by implementation techniques. As such, if the best (or only)
technique for implementing a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know
that even before standardizing it, is that something we *want* to
standardize?

I certainly don't like the idea of C++ implementations being required to
pay money or otherwise license something from a 3rd party just so that they
can implement the standard with reasonable quality.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Boucha=
rd wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: =
0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">And =
a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit counterproducti=
ve in the software industry.<br></div></blockquote><div><br>Some might argu=
e that patents themselves are &quot;counterproductive in the software indus=
try&quot;, but that is neither here nor there. This discussion does raises =
an interesting question, however.<br><br>The C++ standard=20
specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what goes into the standar=
d is not something that is patentable (I think?). However, implementation t=
echniques could be patentable, and behavior is often informed by implementa=
tion techniques. As such, if the best (or only) technique for implementing =
a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know that even before standardiz=
ing it, is that=20
something we <i>want</i> to standardize?<br><br>I certainly don&#39;t like =
the idea of C++ implementations being required to pay money or otherwise li=
cense something from a 3rd party just so that they can implement the standa=
rd with reasonable quality.<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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I don't agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (and in a
lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regardless of that - OP
seems to think that getting a thing into the standard will get him immortal
fame, and getting others to implement a similar thing (which already
happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) will be the worst
thing ever.

Also, *@Phil:* in what way do you think a standard library component
"doesn't need support"? if you think it doesn't you should talk to the
implementers.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:10 PM Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>
>> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit
>> counterproductive in the software industry.
>>
>
> Some might argue that patents themselves are "counterproductive in the
> software industry", but that is neither here nor there. This discussion
> does raises an interesting question, however.
>
> The C++ standard specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what
> goes into the standard is not something that is patentable (I think?).
> However, implementation techniques could be patentable, and behavior is
> often informed by implementation techniques. As such, if the best (or only)
> technique for implementing a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know
> that even before standardizing it, is that something we *want* to
> standardize?
>
> I certainly don't like the idea of C++ implementations being required to
> pay money or otherwise license something from a 3rd party just so that they
> can implement the standard with reasonable quality.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
> To post to this group, send email to std-proposals@isocpp.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t agree with the idea of patents for the softwar=
e industry (and in a lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but re=
gardless of that - OP seems to think that getting a thing into the standard=
 will get him immortal fame, and getting others to implement a similar thin=
g (which already happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) wil=
l be the worst thing ever.<div><br></div><div>Also, <b>@Phil:</b>=C2=A0in w=
hat way do you think a standard library component &quot;doesn&#39;t need su=
pport&quot;? if you think it doesn&#39;t you should talk to the implementer=
s.<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, A=
ug 6, 2017 at 9:10 PM Nicol Bolas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmckesson@gmail.com=
">jmckesson@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouc=
hard wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:=
0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">And a p=
atent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit counterproductive =
in the software industry.<br></div></blockquote></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><br>Some might argue that patents themselves are &quot;counterproductive i=
n the software industry&quot;, but that is neither here nor there. This dis=
cussion does raises an interesting question, however.<br><br>The C++ standa=
rd=20
specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what goes into the standar=
d is not something that is patentable (I think?). However, implementation t=
echniques could be patentable, and behavior is often informed by implementa=
tion techniques. As such, if the best (or only) technique for implementing =
a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know that even before standardiz=
ing it, is that=20
something we <i>want</i> to standardize?<br><br>I certainly don&#39;t like =
the idea of C++ implementations being required to pay money or otherwise li=
cense something from a 3rd party just so that they can implement the standa=
rd with reasonable quality.<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div>

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On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak <griwes@griwes.info> =
wrote:
> I don't agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (and in =
a
> lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regardless of that -
OP
> seems to think that getting a thing into the standard will get him
immortal
> fame, and getting others to implement a similar thing (which already
> happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) will be the worst
> thing ever.

Yeah; whereas in real life, generally you *want* several different
implementations of an idea, and you *want* it to be used in production by a
lot of people, before you feel safe calling it a "standard".

> Also, @Phil: in what way do you think a standard library component
"doesn't
> need support"? if you think it doesn't you should talk to the
implementers.

I believe that was just a humorous remark: he's saying his goal is to write
bug-free, clear, documented, usable code, and then nobody will need to ask
for support. That's my goal too. ;)  But your rebuttal is still accurate:
in practice, every piece of code either dies without any support contracts,
or lives long enough to see itself become the villain. :)

I think =E2=80=94 I *hope!* =E2=80=94 Phil wasn't suggesting that "if Boost=
 adopts this
library then I don't need to maintain it anymore." He was just saying (I
hope) that "if I write really good code, then maintaining it will be easy."

(Note that I said "if Boost", not "if ISO", because "adopting libraries" is
not really ISO WG21's business. ISO is in charge of *specifications*, not
implementations. I think Phil has some misapprehension on that point also.)

=E2=80=93Arthur

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:griwes@griwes.info">griwes@griwes.info</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
&gt; I don&#39;t agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (=
and in a<br>&gt; lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regard=
less of that - OP<br>&gt; seems to think that getting a thing into the stan=
dard will get him immortal<br>&gt; fame, and getting others to implement a =
similar thing (which already<br>&gt; happened, in multiple settings, from w=
hat I undestand) will be the worst<br>&gt; thing ever.<div><br></div><div>Y=
eah; whereas in real life, generally you <i>want</i> several different impl=
ementations of an idea, and you <i>want</i> it to be used in production by =
a lot of people, before you feel safe calling it a &quot;standard&quot;.</d=
iv><div><br>&gt; Also, @Phil: in what way do you think a standard library c=
omponent &quot;doesn&#39;t<br>&gt; need support&quot;? if you think it does=
n&#39;t you should talk to the implementers.<br><br></div><div>I believe th=
at was just a humorous remark: he&#39;s saying his goal is to write bug-fre=
e, clear, documented, usable code, and then nobody will need to ask for sup=
port. That&#39;s my goal too. ;) =C2=A0But your rebuttal is still accurate:=
 in practice, every piece of code either dies without any support contracts=
, or lives long enough to see itself become the villain. :)</div><div><br><=
/div><div>I think =E2=80=94 I <i>hope!</i> =E2=80=94 Phil wasn&#39;t sugges=
ting that &quot;if Boost adopts this library then I don&#39;t need to maint=
ain it anymore.&quot; He was just saying (I hope) that &quot;if I write rea=
lly good code, then maintaining it will be easy.&quot;</div><div><br></div>=
<div>(Note that I said &quot;if Boost&quot;, not &quot;if ISO&quot;, becaus=
e &quot;adopting libraries&quot; is not really ISO WG21&#39;s business. ISO=
 is in charge of <i>specifications</i>, not implementations. I think Phil h=
as some misapprehension on that point also.)</div><div><br></div><div>=E2=
=80=93Arthur</div></div>

<p></p>

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ISO has rules about IP that cover this.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>
>> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit
>> counterproductive in the software industry.
>>
>
> Some might argue that patents themselves are "counterproductive in the
> software industry", but that is neither here nor there. This discussion
> does raises an interesting question, however.
>
> The C++ standard specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what
> goes into the standard is not something that is patentable (I think?).
> However, implementation techniques could be patentable, and behavior is
> often informed by implementation techniques. As such, if the best (or only)
> technique for implementing a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know
> that even before standardizing it, is that something we *want* to
> standardize?
>
> I certainly don't like the idea of C++ implementations being required to
> pay money or otherwise license something from a 3rd party just so that they
> can implement the standard with reasonable quality.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
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> email to std-proposals+unsubscribe@isocpp.org.
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> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/
> isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-
> 8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org
> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/7adbfe8e-13f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>



--
Be seeing you,
Tony

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div>ISO has rules about IP that cover this.<br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug=
 6, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Nicol Bolas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jm=
ckesson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jmckesson@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"">On =
Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">And a patent, I think, takes =
years to get which is a little bit counterproductive in the software indust=
ry.<br></div></blockquote></span><div><br>Some might argue that patents the=
mselves are &quot;counterproductive in the software industry&quot;, but tha=
t is neither here nor there. This discussion does raises an interesting que=
stion, however.<br><br>The C++ standard=20
specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what goes into the standar=
d is not something that is patentable (I think?). However, implementation t=
echniques could be patentable, and behavior is often informed by implementa=
tion techniques. As such, if the best (or only) technique for implementing =
a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know that even before standardiz=
ing it, is that=20
something we <i>want</i> to standardize?<br><br>I certainly don&#39;t like =
the idea of C++ implementations being required to pay money or otherwise li=
cense something from a 3rd party just so that they can implement the standa=
rd with reasonable quality.<br></div></div><span class=3D"">

<p></p>

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40isocpp.org?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_source=3Dfooter" target=3D"_blank">=
https://groups.google.com/a/<wbr>isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-<wbr>proposals/7adb=
fe8e-13f9-42d9-<wbr>8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org</a><wbr>.<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Be seeing =
you,<br></div>Tony<br></div></div>
</div>

<p></p>

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.

On 6 August 2017 at 22:10, Nicol Bolas <jmckesson@gmail.com> wrote:
> I certainly don't like the idea of C++ implementations being required to pay
> money or otherwise license something from a 3rd party just so that they can
> implement the standard with reasonable quality.


To have something like that be standardized requires it to cure
cancer, and that might not
be sufficient. It would instantly turn off the ability of at least
one, if not multiple, implementation
vendors to ship an implementation, and would solicit fire and
brimstone of such proportions you've never
seen before in a C++ standardization context.

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.

On Sunday, 6 August 2017 10:30:04 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit
> counterproductive in the software industry.

If you want to file a patent on your root_ptr invention, it may already be too
late. You've been discussing its behaviour for the past several months in
multiple mailing lists. You should consult your patent attorney now and see if
you can still file a preliminary invention.

Of course, if you want this to become part of an ISO standard, you'll have to
allow anyone to use it royalty-free, forever.

--
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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.

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Let's put it in another way: I am obviously willing to support it but if I=
=20
spend the next 10 years doing so then this means there is something wrong.=
=20
If I just spend a year or two supporting it then this means my abstraction=
=20
is solid.

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 3:17:36 PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrote:
>
> I don't agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (and in =
a=20
> lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regardless of that - =
OP=20
> seems to think that getting a thing into the standard will get him immort=
al=20
> fame, and getting others to implement a similar thing (which already=20
> happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) will be the worst=
=20
> thing ever.
>
> Also, *@Phil:* in what way do you think a standard library component=20
> "doesn't need support"? if you think it doesn't you should talk to the=20
> implementers.
>
> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:10 PM Nicol Bolas <jmck...@gmail.com=20
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>>>
>>> And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit=20
>>> counterproductive in the software industry.
>>>
>>
>> Some might argue that patents themselves are "counterproductive in the=
=20
>> software industry", but that is neither here nor there. This discussion=
=20
>> does raises an interesting question, however.
>>
>> The C++ standard specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what=
=20
>> goes into the standard is not something that is patentable (I think?).=
=20
>> However, implementation techniques could be patentable, and behavior is=
=20
>> often informed by implementation techniques. As such, if the best (or on=
ly)=20
>> technique for implementing a feature is encumbered by patents, and we kn=
ow=20
>> that even before standardizing it, is that something we *want* to=20
>> standardize?
>>
>> I certainly don't like the idea of C++ implementations being required to=
=20
>> pay money or otherwise license something from a 3rd party just so that t=
hey=20
>> can implement the standard with reasonable quality.
>>
>> --=20
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "ISO C++ Standard - Future Proposals" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n=20
>> email to std-proposal...@isocpp.org <javascript:>.
>> To post to this group, send email to std-pr...@isocpp.org <javascript:>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit=20
>> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/7adbfe8e-13=
f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org=20
>> <https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/d/msgid/std-proposals/7adbfe8e-1=
3f9-42d9-8916-e89456fc9d7f%40isocpp.org?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfoo=
ter>
>> .
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Let&#39;s put it in another way: I am obviously willing to=
 support it but if I spend the next 10 years doing so then this means there=
 is something wrong. If I just spend a year or two supporting it then this =
means my abstraction is solid.<br><br>On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 3:17:36 =
PM UTC-4, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t agree with the idea of patents for the =
software industry (and in a lesser extend, in other industries too) either,=
 but regardless of that - OP seems to think that getting a thing into the s=
tandard will get him immortal fame, and getting others to implement a simil=
ar thing (which already happened, in multiple settings, from what I undesta=
nd) will be the worst thing ever.<div><br></div><div>Also, <b>@Phil:</b>=C2=
=A0in what way do you think a standard library component &quot;doesn&#39;t =
need support&quot;? if you think it doesn&#39;t you should talk to the impl=
ementers.<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On=
 Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 9:10 PM Nicol Bolas &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=
=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"ecv-X14VBwAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmouse=
down=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hre=
f=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">jmck...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sunday, August 6,=
 2017 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">And a patent, I think, takes years to get whic=
h is a little bit counterproductive in the software industry.<br></div></bl=
ockquote></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br>Some might argue that patents them=
selves are &quot;counterproductive in the software industry&quot;, but that=
 is neither here nor there. This discussion does raises an interesting ques=
tion, however.<br><br>The C++ standard=20
specifies behavior, not implementation. As such, what goes into the standar=
d is not something that is patentable (I think?). However, implementation t=
echniques could be patentable, and behavior is often informed by implementa=
tion techniques. As such, if the best (or only) technique for implementing =
a feature is encumbered by patents, and we know that even before standardiz=
ing it, is that=20
something we <i>want</i> to standardize?<br><br>I certainly don&#39;t like =
the idea of C++ implementations being required to pay money or otherwise li=
cense something from a 3rd party just so that they can implement the standa=
rd with reasonable quality.<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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I understand ISO is a specification specialization and that's why I'm here.=
=20
I would like to add the aforementioned features to the C++ language=20
(implicit instantiations at each scope, metadata, etc.) so that I am able=
=20
to make my implementation for Boost as clean as I present it with the BB++=
=20
language.

I also think these features could be applied to not only root_ptr's needs=
=20
but will allow at lot a various useful derivatives. For example BB++ makes=
=20
it very easy to apply a specialized template function to all member=20
variables of a class using that metadata thing.

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 3:29:56 PM UTC-4, Arthur O'Dwyer wrote:
>
> On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak <gri...@griwes.info=
=20
> <javascript:>> wrote:
> > I don't agree with the idea of patents for the software industry (and i=
n=20
> a
> > lesser extend, in other industries too) either, but regardless of that =
-=20
> OP
> > seems to think that getting a thing into the standard will get him=20
> immortal
> > fame, and getting others to implement a similar thing (which already
> > happened, in multiple settings, from what I undestand) will be the wors=
t
> > thing ever.
>
> Yeah; whereas in real life, generally you *want* several different=20
> implementations of an idea, and you *want* it to be used in production by=
=20
> a lot of people, before you feel safe calling it a "standard".
>
> > Also, @Phil: in what way do you think a standard library component=20
> "doesn't
> > need support"? if you think it doesn't you should talk to the=20
> implementers.
>
> I believe that was just a humorous remark: he's saying his goal is to=20
> write bug-free, clear, documented, usable code, and then nobody will need=
=20
> to ask for support. That's my goal too. ;)  But your rebuttal is still=20
> accurate: in practice, every piece of code either dies without any suppor=
t=20
> contracts, or lives long enough to see itself become the villain. :)
>
> I think =E2=80=94 I *hope!* =E2=80=94 Phil wasn't suggesting that "if Boo=
st adopts this=20
> library then I don't need to maintain it anymore." He was just saying (I=
=20
> hope) that "if I write really good code, then maintaining it will be easy=
.."
>
> (Note that I said "if Boost", not "if ISO", because "adopting libraries"=
=20
> is not really ISO WG21's business. ISO is in charge of *specifications*,=
=20
> not implementations. I think Phil has some misapprehension on that point=
=20
> also.)
>
> =E2=80=93Arthur
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I understand ISO is a specification specialization and tha=
t&#39;s why I&#39;m here. I would like to add the aforementioned features t=
o the C++ language (implicit instantiations at each scope, metadata, etc.) =
so that I am able to make my implementation for Boost as clean as I present=
 it with the BB++ language.<div><br></div><div>I also think these features =
could be applied to not only root_ptr&#39;s needs but will allow at lot a v=
arious useful derivatives. For example BB++ makes it very easy to apply a s=
pecialized template function to all member variables of a class using that =
metadata thing.<br><br>On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 3:29:56 PM UTC-4, Arthu=
r O&#39;Dwyer wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;ma=
rgin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Micha=C5=82 Dominiak &lt;<a href=
=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"akhouwoWBwAJ" r=
el=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return tru=
e;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">gri...@griwe=
s.info</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; I don&#39;t agree with the idea of patents fo=
r the software industry (and in a<br>&gt; lesser extend, in other industrie=
s too) either, but regardless of that - OP<br>&gt; seems to think that gett=
ing a thing into the standard will get him immortal<br>&gt; fame, and getti=
ng others to implement a similar thing (which already<br>&gt; happened, in =
multiple settings, from what I undestand) will be the worst<br>&gt; thing e=
ver.<div><br></div><div>Yeah; whereas in real life, generally you <i>want</=
i> several different implementations of an idea, and you <i>want</i> it to =
be used in production by a lot of people, before you feel safe calling it a=
 &quot;standard&quot;.</div><div><br>&gt; Also, @Phil: in what way do you t=
hink a standard library component &quot;doesn&#39;t<br>&gt; need support&qu=
ot;? if you think it doesn&#39;t you should talk to the implementers.<br><b=
r></div><div>I believe that was just a humorous remark: he&#39;s saying his=
 goal is to write bug-free, clear, documented, usable code, and then nobody=
 will need to ask for support. That&#39;s my goal too. ;) =C2=A0But your re=
buttal is still accurate: in practice, every piece of code either dies with=
out any support contracts, or lives long enough to see itself become the vi=
llain. :)</div><div><br></div><div>I think =E2=80=94 I <i>hope!</i> =E2=80=
=94 Phil wasn&#39;t suggesting that &quot;if Boost adopts this library then=
 I don&#39;t need to maintain it anymore.&quot; He was just saying (I hope)=
 that &quot;if I write really good code, then maintaining it will be easy.&=
quot;</div><div><br></div><div>(Note that I said &quot;if Boost&quot;, not =
&quot;if ISO&quot;, because &quot;adopting libraries&quot; is not really IS=
O WG21&#39;s business. ISO is in charge of <i>specifications</i>, not imple=
mentations. I think Phil has some misapprehension on that point also.)</div=
><div><br></div><div>=E2=80=93Arthur</div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>

<p></p>

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I'll make the necessary efforts to make it part of ISO but I just want to
be a 100% sure it doesn't end up plagiarized by some corporate business.
I've seen all tactics after 17 years.

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:
>
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 10:30:04 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> > And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit
> > counterproductive in the software industry.
>
> If you want to file a patent on your root_ptr invention, it may already be
> too
> late. You've been discussing its behaviour for the past several months in
> multiple mailing lists. You should consult your patent attorney now and
> see if
> you can still file a preliminary invention.
>
> Of course, if you want this to become part of an ISO standard, you'll have
> to
> allow anyone to use it royalty-free, forever.
>
> --
> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;ll make the necessary efforts to make it part of ISO=
 but I just want to be a 100% sure it doesn&#39;t end up plagiarized by som=
e corporate business. I&#39;ve seen all tactics after 17 years.<br><br>On S=
unday, August 6, 2017 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: =
1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Sunday, 6 August 2017 10:30:04 PDT Ph=
il Bouchard wrote:
<br>&gt; And a patent, I think, takes years to get which is a little bit
<br>&gt; counterproductive in the software industry.
<br>
<br>If you want to file a patent on your root_ptr invention, it may already=
 be too=20
<br>late. You&#39;ve been discussing its behaviour for the past several mon=
ths in=20
<br>multiple mailing lists. You should consult your patent attorney now and=
 see if=20
<br>you can still file a preliminary invention.
<br>
<br>Of course, if you want this to become part of an ISO standard, you&#39;=
ll have to=20
<br>allow anyone to use it royalty-free, forever.
<br>
<br>--=20
<br>Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.goo=
gle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\=
x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hr=
ef=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x=
3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return t=
rue;">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.=
com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH=
GRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;=
http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1=
\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a=
>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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.

On Sunday, 6 August 2017 19:41:43 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> I understand ISO is a specification specialization and that's why I'm here.
> I would like to add the aforementioned features to the C++ language
> (implicit instantiations at each scope, metadata, etc.) so that I am able
> to make my implementation for Boost as clean as I present it with the BB++
> language.
>
> I also think these features could be applied to not only root_ptr's needs
> but will allow at lot a various useful derivatives. For example BB++ makes
> it very easy to apply a specialized template function to all member
> variables of a class using that metadata thing.

You'll need to explain what you need. This description above is not sufficient.

Please show what people do today, what the problem is with how they do it, and
how you'd like to change it (suggest a syntax, even if it won't work and we
need to change it).

--
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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.

On Sunday, 6 August 2017 19:51:38 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> I'll make the necessary efforts to make it part of ISO but I just want to
> be a 100% sure it doesn't end up plagiarized by some corporate business.
> I've seen all tactics after 17 years.

If it is part of ISO, then very many companies will implement it according to
your instructions. They do not have to give you credit.

You may provide a suitably-licensed implementation that encourages everyone to
adopt the code as-is, instead of rewriting from scratch. If you do that, then
your copyrights will remain in those implementations.

--
Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center

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Understood.

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 11:11:47 PM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:
>
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 19:51:38 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> > I'll make the necessary efforts to make it part of ISO but I just want
> to
> > be a 100% sure it doesn't end up plagiarized by some corporate business.
> > I've seen all tactics after 17 years.
>
> If it is part of ISO, then very many companies will implement it according
> to
> your instructions. They do not have to give you credit.
>
> You may provide a suitably-licensed implementation that encourages
> everyone to
> adopt the code as-is, instead of rewriting from scratch. If you do that,
> then
> your copyrights will remain in those implementations.
>
> --
> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Understood.<br><br>On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 11:11:47 P=
M UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"=
>On Sunday, 6 August 2017 19:51:38 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
<br>&gt; I&#39;ll make the necessary efforts to make it part of ISO but I j=
ust want to
<br>&gt; be a 100% sure it doesn&#39;t end up plagiarized by some corporate=
 business.
<br>&gt; I&#39;ve seen all tactics after 17 years.
<br>
<br>If it is part of ISO, then very many companies will implement it accord=
ing to=20
<br>your instructions. They do not have to give you credit.
<br>
<br>You may provide a suitably-licensed implementation that encourages ever=
yone to=20
<br>adopt the code as-is, instead of rewriting from scratch. If you do that=
, then=20
<br>your copyrights will remain in those implementations.
<br>
<br>--=20
<br>Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.goo=
gle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\=
x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hr=
ef=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x=
3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return t=
rue;">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.=
com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH=
GRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;=
http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1=
\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a=
>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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Ok thank you very much. I'll use the following template:
http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3370.html

On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 11:09:55 PM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:
>
> On Sunday, 6 August 2017 19:41:43 PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
> > I understand ISO is a specification specialization and that's why I'm
> here.
> > I would like to add the aforementioned features to the C++ language
> > (implicit instantiations at each scope, metadata, etc.) so that I am
> able
> > to make my implementation for Boost as clean as I present it with the
> BB++
> > language.
> >
> > I also think these features could be applied to not only root_ptr's
> needs
> > but will allow at lot a various useful derivatives. For example BB++
> makes
> > it very easy to apply a specialized template function to all member
> > variables of a class using that metadata thing.
>
> You'll need to explain what you need. This description above is not
> sufficient.
>
> Please show what people do today, what the problem is with how they do it,
> and
> how you'd like to change it (suggest a syntax, even if it won't work and
> we
> need to change it).
>
> --
> Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org
>    Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Ok thank you very much. I&#39;ll use the following templat=
e:<br>http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3370.html<br><br=
>On Sunday, August 6, 2017 at 11:09:55 PM UTC-4, Thiago Macieira wrote:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Sunday, 6 August 2017 19:41:43 =
PDT Phil Bouchard wrote:
<br>&gt; I understand ISO is a specification specialization and that&#39;s =
why I&#39;m here.
<br>&gt; I would like to add the aforementioned features to the C++ languag=
e
<br>&gt; (implicit instantiations at each scope, metadata, etc.) so that I =
am able
<br>&gt; to make my implementation for Boost as clean as I present it with =
the BB++
<br>&gt; language.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; I also think these features could be applied to not only root_ptr&=
#39;s needs
<br>&gt; but will allow at lot a various useful derivatives. For example BB=
++ makes
<br>&gt; it very easy to apply a specialized template function to all membe=
r
<br>&gt; variables of a class using that metadata thing.
<br>
<br>You&#39;ll need to explain what you need. This description above is not=
 sufficient.
<br>
<br>Please show what people do today, what the problem is with how they do =
it, and=20
<br>how you&#39;d like to change it (suggest a syntax, even if it won&#39;t=
 work and we=20
<br>need to change it).
<br>
<br>--=20
<br>Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://macieira.info" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.goo=
gle.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\=
x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.hr=
ef=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmacieira.info\x26sa\x=
3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEswDUBNCNanbu7euhqLn_62FW8ag&#39;;return t=
rue;">macieira.info</a> - thiago (AT) <a href=3D"http://kde.org" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.=
com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNH=
GRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;=
http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fkde.org\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1=
\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHGRJdo5_JYG1DowztwAHAKs80XSA&#39;;return true;">kde.org</a=
>
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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.

2017-08-07 5:36 GMT+02:00 Phil Bouchard <philippeb8@gmail.com>:
> Ok thank you very much. I'll use the following template:
> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3370.html

If you have any questions to the submission and allocation procedure,
please contact directly the lwgchair address (and use this address for
your document number allocation and proposal submission as well).
Unfortunately above paper is a bit outdated, but there does not exist
yet an update publicly available. The lwgchair address is available in
the ReplyTo field here:

http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/lwg-active.html

Thanks,

- Daniel

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Perfect, thanks!

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 1:42:52 AM UTC-4, Daniel Kr=C3=BCgler wrote:
>
> 2017-08-07 5:36 GMT+02:00 Phil Bouchard <phili...@gmail.com <javascript:>=
>:=20
>
> > Ok thank you very much. I'll use the following template:=20
> > http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3370.html=20
>
> If you have any questions to the submission and allocation procedure,=20
> please contact directly the lwgchair address (and use this address for=20
> your document number allocation and proposal submission as well).=20
> Unfortunately above paper is a bit outdated, but there does not exist=20
> yet an update publicly available. The lwgchair address is available in=20
> the ReplyTo field here:=20
>
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/lwg-active.html=20
>
> Thanks,=20
>
> - Daniel=20
>

--=20
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..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/f9574578-a2c6-4110-b71e-0607eb13e8ab%40isocpp.or=
g.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Perfect, thanks!<br><br>On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 1:42:=
52 AM UTC-4, Daniel Kr=C3=BCgler wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t: 1ex;">2017-08-07 5:36 GMT+02:00 Phil Bouchard &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:=
" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"10FFNH03BwAJ" rel=3D"nofollow"=
 onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"=
this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">phili...@gmail.com</a>&gt;:
<br>&gt; Ok thank you very much. I&#39;ll use the following template:
<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n33=
70.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39=
;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fopen-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fw=
g21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2012%2Fn3370.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dA=
FQjCNFvm0wsk_paFZ3QmmJf84dC0znHcg&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=
=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fopen-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fs=
c22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2012%2Fn3370.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26u=
sg\x3dAFQjCNFvm0wsk_paFZ3QmmJf84dC0znHcg&#39;;return true;">http://open-std=
..org/jtc1/sc22/<wbr>wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3370.<wbr>html</a>
<br>
<br>If you have any questions to the submission and allocation procedure,
<br>please contact directly the lwgchair address (and use this address for
<br>your document number allocation and proposal submission as well).
<br>Unfortunately above paper is a bit outdated, but there does not exist
<br>yet an update publicly available. The lwgchair address is available in
<br>the ReplyTo field here:
<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/lwg-active.html"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://=
www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%=
2Fdocs%2Flwg-active.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEV9q2WysPC=
8vFEEBoFwqlex0UdXw&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://ww=
w.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2F=
docs%2Flwg-active.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNEV9q2WysPC8v=
FEEBoFwqlex0UdXw&#39;;return true;">http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/<wbr>sc22/=
wg21/docs/lwg-active.html</a>
<br>
<br>Thanks,
<br>
<br>- Daniel
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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.

On 08/07/2017 01:42 AM, Daniel Kr=C3=BCgler wrote:
> 2017-08-07 5:36 GMT+02:00 Phil Bouchard <philippeb8@gmail.com>:
>> Ok thank you very much. I'll use the following template:
>> http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2012/n3370.html
>=20
> If you have any questions to the submission and allocation procedure,
> please contact directly the lwgchair address (and use this address for
> your document number allocation and proposal submission as well).
> Unfortunately above paper is a bit outdated, but there does not exist
> yet an update publicly available. The lwgchair address is available in
> the ReplyTo field here:
>=20
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/lwg-active.html

Perfect, thanks!


-Phil

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..org/d/msgid/std-proposals/om9jic%24tpj%241%40blaine.gmane.org.

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On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 12:22:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Bouchard wrote:
>
> > You never show code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the
> > usage example and caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly what
> > Herb Sutter called a "deferred_heap" at CppCon 2016.
> >
> https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers/4183
> > Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea; and there
> > are plenty of hybrids, such as "local arena allocators", or mixing in a
> > bit of refcounting to get Objective-C's "autorelease pools", or mixing
> > in a bit of RCU to get "RCU domains", or whatever.
>
> Firstly I would like to point out that I came up with the idea long
> before Microsoft did (2011 actually). You can easily find references to
> my previous attempts in the development Boost mailing list. Back in the
> days my library was called: "block_ptr" and "shifted_ptr".
>

To go back on this subject, root_ptr aka block_ptr aka shifted_ptr actually
dates back from 2003!
http://boost.sourceforge.net/more/formal_review_schedule.html


> Secondly deferred_ptr is not production ready and doesn't support
> multithreading mode whereas root_ptr was correctly unit tested and it
> does support multithreading mode but I just need to optimize one mutex
> (that is currently a static member) to make it even faster.
>

Thirdly root_ptr injected via the powerful Clang-based Fornux C Leak
Detector works well and has been tested with a modified version of
libarchive:
https://github.com/philippeb8/libarchive/commit/5858b5c047301123ffdf05f247f7d191829d5a9b

The modifications involved are very simple but can be repetitive.

I think the next step is to standardize meta-data but not the way Mr.
Sutter proposes it because like I was saying before, extra parameters will
need to be passed to each function and extra member variables will need to
be added to each top-level class and compilation unit. This meta-data can
be used to get backtraces as well, like previously mentioned somewhere.

It is working well with the Fornux C Leak Detector and I will try to share
a free version for Linux and Windows in the following months. Thanks for
your patience... again.


Regards,
Phil Bouchard
www.fornux.com

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 12:22:48 PM UTC-4, =
Phil Bouchard wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;ma=
rgin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">&gt; You n=
ever show code or diagrams for root_ptr in the video, but from the=20
<br>&gt; usage example and caveats, I infer that it is (almost?) exactly wh=
at=20
<br>&gt; Herb Sutter called a &quot;deferred_heap&quot; at CppCon 2016.
<br>&gt; <a href=3D"https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/herb-sutter-deferred-=
heaps-and-pointers/4183" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"=
this.href=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Finternals.ru=
st-lang.org%2Ft%2Fherb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers%2F4183\x26sa\x3dD=
\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFDgDPIjrcdGQg_Xmfpsrn_6z2FRg&#39;;return true=
;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Finternals.rust-lang.org%2Ft%2Fherb-sutter-deferred-heaps-and-pointers%2F4=
183\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFDgDPIjrcdGQg_Xmfpsrn_6z2FRg&#3=
9;;return true;">https://internals.rust-lang.<wbr>org/t/herb-sutter-deferre=
d-<wbr>heaps-and-pointers/4183</a>
<br>&gt; Of course everyone has their own implementation of this idea; and =
there=20
<br>&gt; are plenty of hybrids, such as &quot;local arena allocators&quot;,=
 or mixing in a=20
<br>&gt; bit of refcounting to get Objective-C&#39;s &quot;autorelease pool=
s&quot;, or mixing=20
<br>&gt; in a bit of RCU to get &quot;RCU domains&quot;, or whatever.
<br>
<br>Firstly I would like to point out that I came up with the idea long=20
<br>before Microsoft did (2011 actually). You can easily find references to=
=20
<br>my previous attempts in the development Boost mailing list. Back in the=
=20
<br>days my library was called: &quot;block_ptr&quot; and &quot;shifted_ptr=
&quot;.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>To go back on this subject, root_ptr a=
ka block_ptr aka shifted_ptr actually dates back from 2003!<br>http://boost=
..sourceforge.net/more/formal_review_schedule.html<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Secondly deferred_ptr is not =
production ready and doesn&#39;t support=20
<br>multithreading mode whereas root_ptr was correctly unit tested and it=
=20
<br>does support multithreading mode but I just need to optimize one mutex=
=20
<br>(that is currently a static member) to make it even faster.
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thirdly root_ptr injected via the powe=
rful Clang-based Fornux C Leak Detector works well and has been tested with=
 a modified version of libarchive:<br>https://github.com/philippeb8/libarch=
ive/commit/5858b5c047301123ffdf05f247f7d191829d5a9b<br></div><div><br></div=
><div>The modifications involved are very simple but can be repetitive.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>I think the next step is to standardize meta-data but=
 not the way Mr. Sutter proposes it because like I was saying before, extra=
 parameters will need to be passed to each function and extra member variab=
les will need to be added to each top-level class and compilation unit. Thi=
s meta-data can be used to get backtraces as well, like previously mentione=
d somewhere.</div><div><br></div><div>It is working well with the Fornux C =
Leak Detector and I will try to share a free version for Linux and Windows =
in the following months. Thanks for your patience... again.</div><div><br><=
/div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Phil Bouchard</div><div>www.for=
nux.com</div></div>

<p></p>

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