Topic: Readability improvement: types go on the
Author: Ville Voutilainen <ville.voutilainen@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:54:55 +0300
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On 10 August 2018 at 17:25, Dimitrij Mijoski <dim.mj.p@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So, you're suggesting that we use precious syntax for notation. This won't
>> increase the capabilities of any C++ program; it simply changes how things
>> are declared.
>>
>> Yeah, that's not really worth the cost.
>>
>
> Yes I'm suggesting exactly that, and it is worth the effort. Not all changes
> have to be stuffing features and making the language write-only.
This suggestion doesn't change how things are declared, it adds yet another way
to declare things. Such an addition should show, as its rationale,
1) why there's a problem
2) why it's a significant problem
3) why the proposed solution is the right solution
I don't see anything like that here.
> Now, I'm going to ignore your further comments because you are the regular
> troll around here.
He does a very good job pre-filtering inane nonsense so that the
committee doesn't have to.
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Author: Tony V E <tvaneerd@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 04:45:37 -0400
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On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:54 AM, Ville Voutilainen <
ville.voutilainen@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10 August 2018 at 17:25, Dimitrij Mijoski <dim.mj.p@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> So, you're suggesting that we use precious syntax for notation. This
> won't
> >> increase the capabilities of any C++ program; it simply changes how
> things
> >> are declared.
> >>
> >> Yeah, that's not really worth the cost.
> >>
> >
> > Yes I'm suggesting exactly that, and it is worth the effort. Not all
> changes
> > have to be stuffing features and making the language write-only.
>
> This suggestion doesn't change how things are declared, it adds yet
> another way
> to declare things. Such an addition should show, as its rationale,
> 1) why there's a problem
> 2) why it's a significant problem
> 3) why the proposed solution is the right solution
>
> I don't see anything like that here.
>
> > Now, I'm going to ignore your further comments because you are the
> regular
> > troll around here.
>
> He does a very good job pre-filtering inane nonsense so that the
> committee doesn't have to.
>
>
Agreed.
But while on the topic I'd like to mention that very many people have
expressed to me (and I agree) that his/her style of discourse isn't the
best, and it has caused many people to avoid these lists.
And at least some of those people were not inane.
I don't know if we could get "best of both worlds" here, but I'd like to
hope so.
--
Be seeing you,
Tony
--
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:54 AM, Ville Voutilainen <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ville.voutilainen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ville.v=
outilainen@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><span class=3D"">On 10 August 2018 at 17:25, Dimitrij Mijoski <<a href=
=3D"mailto:dim.mj.p@gmail.com">dim.mj.p@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> So, you're suggesting that we use precious syntax for notation=
.. This won't<br>
>> increase the capabilities of any C++ program; it simply changes ho=
w things<br>
>> are declared.<br>
>><br>
>> Yeah, that's not really worth the cost.<br>
>><br>
><br>
> Yes I'm suggesting exactly that, and it is worth the effort. Not a=
ll changes<br>
> have to be stuffing features and making the language write-only.<br>
<br>
</span>This suggestion doesn't change how things are declared, it adds =
yet another way<br>
to declare things. Such an addition should show, as its rationale,<br>
1) why there's a problem<br>
2) why it's a significant problem<br>
3) why the proposed solution is the right solution<br>
<br>
I don't see anything like that here.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
> Now, I'm going to ignore your further comments because you are the=
regular<br>
> troll around here.<br>
<br>
</span>He does a very good job pre-filtering inane nonsense so that the<br>
committee doesn't have to.<br>
<span class=3D""><br></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agreed.</div><=
div><br></div><div>But while on the topic I'd like to mention that very=
many people have expressed to me (and I agree) that his/her style of disco=
urse isn't the best, and it has caused many people to avoid these lists=
..</div><div><br></div><div>And at least some of those people were not inane=
..</div></div><br clear=3D"all"><div>I don't know if we could get "=
best of both worlds" here, but I'd like to hope so.</div><div><br>=
</div><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Be seeing you,<br></div>Tony<br>=
</div></div>
</div></div>
<p></p>
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Author: schreiber.corentin@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2018 08:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
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One limitation with the OP's assumption that all variable declarations
should be read "let 'x' be a variable of type '...'" is that this assumes
C++ is a declarative language, which it is not (or not exclusively).
Writing "Type x;" inside a function body is not simply an abstract
declaration that the variable 'x' is allowed to exist (as is the case in
mathematics and other textbooks), it also represents the action of
allocating memory for 'x' and calling its constructor. For this reason I
prefer to read this as "create a 'Type' called 'x'" (substitute 'Type' for
'std::string' or whatever, and this is very much readable).
On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 9:45:39 AM UTC+1, Tony V E wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:54 AM, Ville Voutilainen <ville.vo...@gmail.com
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> On 10 August 2018 at 17:25, Dimitrij Mijoski <dim....@gmail.com
>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>> >> So, you're suggesting that we use precious syntax for notation. This
>> won't
>> >> increase the capabilities of any C++ program; it simply changes how
>> things
>> >> are declared.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, that's not really worth the cost.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yes I'm suggesting exactly that, and it is worth the effort. Not all
>> changes
>> > have to be stuffing features and making the language write-only.
>>
>> This suggestion doesn't change how things are declared, it adds yet
>> another way
>> to declare things. Such an addition should show, as its rationale,
>> 1) why there's a problem
>> 2) why it's a significant problem
>> 3) why the proposed solution is the right solution
>>
>> I don't see anything like that here.
>>
>> > Now, I'm going to ignore your further comments because you are the
>> regular
>> > troll around here.
>>
>> He does a very good job pre-filtering inane nonsense so that the
>> committee doesn't have to.
>>
>>
> Agreed.
>
> But while on the topic I'd like to mention that very many people have
> expressed to me (and I agree) that his/her style of discourse isn't the
> best, and it has caused many people to avoid these lists.
>
> And at least some of those people were not inane.
>
> I don't know if we could get "best of both worlds" here, but I'd like to
> hope so.
>
>
> --
> Be seeing you,
> Tony
>
--
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<div dir=3D"ltr">One limitation with the OP's assumption that all varia=
ble declarations should be read "let 'x' be a variable of type=
'...'" is that this assumes C++ is a declarative language, wh=
ich it is not (or not exclusively). Writing "Type x;" inside a fu=
nction body is not simply an abstract declaration that the variable 'x&=
#39; is allowed to exist (as is the case in mathematics and other textbooks=
), it also represents the action of allocating memory for 'x' and c=
alling its constructor. For this reason I prefer to read this as "crea=
te a 'Type' called 'x'" (substitute 'Type' fo=
r 'std::string' or whatever, and this is very much readable).<br><b=
r>On Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 9:45:39 AM UTC+1, Tony V E wrote:<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: =
1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:54 AM, Ville Voutilainen <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-ma=
ilto=3D"KkhWXtHNDQAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'java=
script:';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';ret=
urn true;">ville.vo...@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><span>On 10 August 2018 at 17:25, Dimitrij Mijoski <<a hre=
f=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"KkhWXtHNDQAJ" =
rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';return tr=
ue;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';return true;">dim....@gma=
il.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> So, you're suggesting that we use precious syntax for notation=
.. This won't<br>
>> increase the capabilities of any C++ program; it simply changes ho=
w things<br>
>> are declared.<br>
>><br>
>> Yeah, that's not really worth the cost.<br>
>><br>
><br>
> Yes I'm suggesting exactly that, and it is worth the effort. Not a=
ll changes<br>
> have to be stuffing features and making the language write-only.<br>
<br>
</span>This suggestion doesn't change how things are declared, it adds =
yet another way<br>
to declare things. Such an addition should show, as its rationale,<br>
1) why there's a problem<br>
2) why it's a significant problem<br>
3) why the proposed solution is the right solution<br>
<br>
I don't see anything like that here.<br>
<span><br>
> Now, I'm going to ignore your further comments because you are the=
regular<br>
> troll around here.<br>
<br>
</span>He does a very good job pre-filtering inane nonsense so that the<br>
committee doesn't have to.<br>
<span><br></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agreed.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>But while on the topic I'd like to mention that very many peopl=
e have expressed to me (and I agree) that his/her style of discourse isn=
9;t the best, and it has caused many people to avoid these lists.</div><div=
><br></div><div>And at least some of those people were not inane.</div></di=
v><br clear=3D"all"><div>I don't know if we could get "best of bot=
h worlds" here, but I'd like to hope so.</div><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div>-- <br><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Be seeing you,<br></div>Tony<br=
></div></div>
</div></div>
</blockquote></div>
<p></p>
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