Topic: Is C++ must need the finalizer? do you think?
Author: yakitori1010@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:27:26 -0800 (PST)
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hello.
thank you for prev posts opinion.
it is good study for me.
now i have some leisure.
if i have time to thinking for something.
and spown to a thing.
is C++ need the finalizer?
C++ object model have [constructer] & [destructer].
it is normaly ok.but...
to i say parable for campany work flow.this is one of a case.
day start to [constructer] moving.it is construct to "flow of a day".
live with some method in the day.
day end to [destructer] moving to end of "flow of a day".
i have question.
where is the static object's free timing? it on c++.
at company to where is free timing of "stacked something".
so i think all resuroce is need to free for last time.
to my thinking arrive to "is C++ need the finalizer?".
do you think?
thank you.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>hello.</div><div><br></div><div>thank you for prev po=
sts opinion.</div><div>it is good study for me.</div><div><br></div><div>no=
w i have some leisure.</div><div>if i have time to thinking for something.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>and spown to a thing.</div><div><br></div><div>is =
C++ need the finalizer?</div><div><br></div><div>C++ object model have [con=
structer] & [destructer].</div><div>it is normaly ok.but...</div><div><=
br></div><div>to i say parable for campany work flow.this is one of a case.=
</div><div>day start to [constructer] moving.it is construct=C2=A0 to "=
;flow of a day".</div><div>live with some method in the day.</div><div=
>day end to [destructer] moving to end of "flow of a day".</div><=
div><br></div><div>i have question.</div><div><br></div><div>where is the s=
tatic object's free timing? it on c++.</div><div>at company to where is=
free timing of=C2=A0 "stacked something".=C2=A0</div><div><br></=
div><div>so i think all resuroce is need to free for last time.</div><div>t=
o my thinking arrive to "is C++ need the finalizer?".</div><div><=
br></div><div>do you=C2=A0 think?</div><div><br></div><div>thank you.</div>=
<div><br></div></div>
<p></p>
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Author: yakitori1010@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:35:52 -0800 (PST)
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sorry to i did miss en title.
Is C++ <s>must</s> need the finalizer? do you think?
i cant force the your thinking for it.
but finalizer is not bad.so i think.
i need more study for a time.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>sorry to i did miss en title.</div><div><span style=
=3D"display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent;=
color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: "Arial","Helvetica&quo=
t;,sans-serif; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; f=
ont-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text=
-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-str=
oke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Is C++ <s>mu=
st</s> need the finalizer? do you think?</span><b></b><i></i><u></u><=
sub></sub><sup></sup><strike></strike></div><div>i cant force the your thin=
king for it.</div><div>but finalizer is not bad.so i think.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>i need more study for a time.<br></div></div>
<p></p>
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Author: Raymund Hofmann <hofmannraymund@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 10:59:29 +0700
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Finalizers are called destructors in non garbage collected but
deterministic languages like C++.
<yakitori1010@gmail.com> schrieb am So., 11. Nov. 2018, 08:35:
> sorry to i did miss en title.
> Is C++ <s>must</s> need the finalizer? do you think?
> i cant force the your thinking for it.
> but finalizer is not bad.so i think.
>
> i need more study for a time.
>
> --
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> .
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">Finalizers are called destructors in non garbage collecte=
d but deterministic languages like C++.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"> <<a href=3D"mailto:yakitori1010@gmail.com">yakitori10=
10@gmail.com</a>> schrieb am So., 11. Nov. 2018, 08:35:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>sorry to i did miss en title.=
</div><div><span style=3D"display:inline!important;float:none;background-co=
lor:transparent;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Arial","Hel=
vetica",sans-serif;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant:norma=
l;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-decoration:non=
e;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">=
Is C++ <s>must</s> need the finalizer? do you think?</span><b><=
/b><i></i><u></u><sub></sub><sup></sup><strike></strike></div><div>i cant f=
orce the your thinking for it.</div><div>but finalizer is not bad.so i thin=
k.</div><div><br></div><div>i need more study for a time.<br></div></div>
<p></p>
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</blockquote></div>
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.
Author: yakitori1010@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 00:54:56 -0800 (PST)
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thank you for your opinion.
i have one more question.
static object is always static and binding in that?
will that have to free timing?
where is this?
i think non free static object is out way the lifecycle theory.
lifecycle is halting promise.
if you can not break the old garbege.so you hate it.
halting promise is clear the that problem.yes!
and the finalizer is solve it.so i think.
do you think?
thank you.
2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=A5=E6=97=A5=E6=9B=9C=E6=97=A5 12=E6=99=825=
9=E5=88=8643=E7=A7=92 UTC+9 Raymund Hofmann:
>
> Finalizers are called destructors in non garbage collected but=20
> deterministic languages like C++.
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>thank you for your opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>=
i have one more question.</div><div><br></div><div>static object is always =
static and binding in that?</div><div>will that have to free timing?</div><=
div>where is this?</div><div><br></div><div>i think non free static object =
is out way the lifecycle theory.</div><div>lifecycle is halting promise.</d=
iv><div>if you can not break the old garbege.so you hate it.</div><div>halt=
ing=C2=A0 promise is clear the that problem.yes!</div><div><br></div><div>a=
nd the finalizer is solve it.so i think.</div><div><br></div><div>do you th=
ink?</div><div><br></div><div>thank you.</div><div><br></div>2018=E5=B9=B41=
1=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=A5=E6=97=A5=E6=9B=9C=E6=97=A5 12=E6=99=8259=E5=88=8643=
=E7=A7=92 UTC+9 Raymund Hofmann:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
"><div dir=3D"auto">Finalizers are called destructors in non garbage collec=
ted but deterministic languages like C++.<br></div>
</blockquote></div>
<p></p>
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Author: Domen Vrankar <domen.vrankar@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 11:15:21 +0100
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V V ned., 11. nov. 2018 ob 09:54 je oseba <yakitori1010@gmail.com> napisala:
> thank you for your opinion.
>
> i have one more question.
>
> static object is always static and binding in that?
> will that have to free timing?
> where is this?
>
> i think non free static object is out way the lifecycle theory.
> lifecycle is halting promise.
> if you can not break the old garbege.so you hate it.
> halting promise is clear the that problem.yes!
>
> and the finalizer is solve it.so i think.
>
Static objects are no different from dynamic objects in this regard. If you
need to call a static method you can create a scoped object and call it
inside of the destructor like you would do inside a finally segment.
The advantage of not having a finally is that you don't need to indent with
a try block just for the sake of it:
try
{
// code
}
finally
{
// all the indentations here are useless noise needed because we want a
finally block
}
Here's an old thread on this topic:
https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!topic/std-discussion/AApn0B6MsHg
There is also a proposal to standardize such scope guards:
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/p0052r9.pdf
Regards,
Domen
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">V V ned., 11. nov. 2018 =
ob 09:54 je oseba <<a href=3D"mailto:yakitori1010@gmail.com">yakitori101=
0@gmail.com</a>> napisala:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>thank you for your=
opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>i have one more question.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>static object is always static and binding in that?</div><div>wi=
ll that have to free timing?</div><div>where is this?</div><div><br></div><=
div>i think non free static object is out way the lifecycle theory.</div><d=
iv>lifecycle is halting promise.</div><div>if you can not break the old gar=
bege.so you hate it.</div><div>halting=C2=A0 promise is clear the that prob=
lem.yes!</div><div><br></div><div>and the finalizer is solve it.so i think.=
<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Static objects are no dif=
ferent from dynamic objects in this regard. If you need to call a static me=
thod you can create a scoped object and call it inside of the destructor li=
ke you would do inside a finally segment.</div><div>The advantage of not ha=
ving a finally is that you don't need to indent with a try block just f=
or the sake of it:</div><div><br></div><div>try</div><div>{</div><div>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 // code<br></div><div>}</div><div>finally</div><div>{</div><div>=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 // all the indentations here are useless noise needed because =
we want a finally block<br></div><div>}<br></div><div><br></div><div>Here&#=
39;s an old thread on this topic: <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/a/is=
ocpp.org/forum/#!topic/std-discussion/AApn0B6MsHg">https://groups.google.co=
m/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!topic/std-discussion/AApn0B6MsHg</a></div><div><br><=
/div><div>There is also a proposal to standardize such scope guards: <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/p0052r9.pdf">h=
ttp://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/p0052r9.pdf</a></div=
><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Domen<br></div><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div></div></div></div></div>
<p></p>
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Author: yakitori1010@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 03:20:44 -0800 (PST)
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thank you for your opinion.
i study the one thing. so good.
and sorry to like parrot to say.
is the variable to be?=20
2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=A5=E6=97=A5=E6=9B=9C=E6=97=A5 19=E6=99=821=
6=E5=88=8604=E7=A7=92 UTC+9 Domen Vrankar:
>
> V V ned., 11. nov. 2018 ob 09:54 je oseba <yakito...@gmail.com=20
> <javascript:>> napisala:
>
>> thank you for your opinion.
>>
>> i have one more question.
>>
>> static object is always static and binding in that?
>> will that have to free timing?
>> where is this?
>>
>> i think non free static object is out way the lifecycle theory.
>> lifecycle is halting promise.
>> if you can not break the old garbege.so you hate it.
>> halting promise is clear the that problem.yes!
>>
>> and the finalizer is solve it.so i think.=20
>>
>
> Static objects are no different from dynamic objects in this regard. If=
=20
> you need to call a static method you can create a scoped object and call =
it=20
> inside of the destructor like you would do inside a finally segment.
> The advantage of not having a finally is that you don't need to indent=20
> with a try block just for the sake of it:
>
> try
> {
> // code
> }
> finally
> {
> // all the indentations here are useless noise needed because we want =
a=20
> finally block
> }
>
> Here's an old thread on this topic:=20
> https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!topic/std-discussion/AApn0=
B6MsHg
>
> There is also a proposal to standardize such scope guards:=20
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/p0052r9.pdf
>
> Regards,
> Domen
>
>
>
--=20
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>thank you for your opinion.</div><div>i study the one=
thing. so good.</div><div>and sorry to like parrot to say.</div><div>is th=
e variable to be?=C2=A0</div><br>2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8811=E6=97=A5=E6=97=
=A5=E6=9B=9C=E6=97=A5 19=E6=99=8216=E5=88=8604=E7=A7=92 UTC+9 Domen Vrankar=
:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">V V ned., 11. nov. 2018 ob 09:54 je oseba <<a onmo=
usedown=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';return true;" onclick=3D"this.=
href=3D'javascript:';return true;" href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"nofollow" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"Rjuk-HtaBQAJ">yakito...@gm=
ail.com</a>> napisala:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>thank you for your o=
pinion.</div><div><br></div><div>i have one more question.</div><div><br></=
div><div>static object is always static and binding in that?</div><div>will=
that have to free timing?</div><div>where is this?</div><div><br></div><di=
v>i think non free static object is out way the lifecycle theory.</div><div=
>lifecycle is halting promise.</div><div>if you can not break the old garbe=
ge.so you hate it.</div><div>halting=C2=A0 promise is clear the that proble=
m.yes!</div><div><br></div><div>and the finalizer is solve it.so i think. <=
br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Static objects are no diffe=
rent from dynamic objects in this regard. If you need to call a static meth=
od you can create a scoped object and call it inside of the destructor like=
you would do inside a finally segment.</div><div>The advantage of not havi=
ng a finally is that you don't need to indent with a try block just for=
the sake of it:</div><div><br></div><div>try</div><div>{</div><div>=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 // code<br></div><div>}</div><div>finally</div><div>{</div><div>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 // all the indentations here are useless noise needed because we =
want a finally block<br></div><div>}<br></div><div><br></div><div>Here'=
s an old thread on this topic: <a onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'https://g=
roups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!topic/std-discussion/AApn0B6MsHg'=
;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'https://groups.google.com/a/isoc=
pp.org/forum/#!topic/std-discussion/AApn0B6MsHg';return true;" href=3D"=
https://groups.google.com/a/isocpp.org/forum/#!topic/std-discussion/AApn0B6=
MsHg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">https://groups.google.com/a/<wbr>i=
socpp.org/forum/#!topic/std-<wbr>discussion/AApn0B6MsHg</a></div><div><br><=
/div><div>There is also a proposal to standardize such scope guards: <a onm=
ousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2018%2Fp0052r9.pdf\x2=
6sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFtJ_SfL_OcCdu3Pv2Kz8U7jbJr2Q';ret=
urn true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%=
3A%2F%2Fwww.open-std.org%2Fjtc1%2Fsc22%2Fwg21%2Fdocs%2Fpapers%2F2018%2Fp005=
2r9.pdf\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFtJ_SfL_OcCdu3Pv2Kz8U7jbJr2=
Q';return true;" href=3D"http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/pa=
pers/2018/p0052r9.pdf" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">http://www.open-s=
td.org/jtc1/<wbr>sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2018/<wbr>p0052r9.pdf</a></div><div>=
<br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Domen<br></div><div><br></div><div> <br><=
/div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
<p></p>
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Author: FrankHB1989 <frankhb1989@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:53:32 -0800 (PST)
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As I understand, finalizers are destructors with relaxed requirements of
the timing and ordering of the non-trivial effects.
In theory, yes, because finalizers can be useful when the indeterminacy are
allowed to defer the effects (usually for some sorts of performance like
overall throughput) and they are not expressible in the current language
without magic.
In practice, almost no, because there is no known way to make it
implementable without a sophisticated runtime gathering information during
execution. And even so, there need more idioms to make users get them
sufficient "correct" (like this
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbounded_nondeterminism#Fairness>) in
general. You will eventually get a new language for that purpose, but not
C++.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">As I understand, finalizers are destructors with relaxed r=
equirements of the timing and ordering of the non-trivial effects.<br><br>I=
n theory, yes, because finalizers can be useful when the indeterminacy are =
allowed to defer the effects (usually for some sorts of performance like ov=
erall throughput) and they are not expressible in the current language with=
out magic.<br><br>In practice, almost no, because there is no known way to =
make it implementable without a sophisticated runtime gathering information=
during execution. And even so, there need more idioms to make users get th=
em sufficient "correct" (like <a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org=
/wiki/Unbounded_nondeterminism#Fairness">this</a>) in general. You will eve=
ntually get a new language for that purpose, but not C++.<br><br><br><br></=
div>
<p></p>
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%40isocpp.org</a>.<br />
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